Monday, 5 September 2011

The Dangers of Malignant Narcissism

This video features Frank Ochberg, MD discussing What is a Psychopath? Doctor Ochberg is one of the founding fathers of modern psychotraumatology, and has helped to define and research post-traumatic stress disorder. His work is directed toward helping the victims of psychopaths/narcissists, and his approach (expressed in this blog post here ) is one of compassion, understanding and validation of the victim.
I’ve posted Dr. Ochberg’s video because it’s the best I’ve found that explains how the psychopath’s nature and motivation is really no different than the malignant narcissists. Particularly, when sadism enters the picture. Dr. Ochberg’s most significant point – in my opinion – is that it is potentially deadly to go through life ignorant that psychopaths exist. He urges us to protect ourselves.
I would recommend watching his other videos on PTSD and Depression, Trauma Memories, Non-lethal Events Triggering PTSD etc. I have a lot of respect for this man. He’s one of the few who is on the right side of the war – the victim’s side.  I also agree with his stance on the word evil, and use of the word evil.  For many people, the word “evil” conjures up something in the spiritual realm. Although I believe malignant narcissists are morally, emotionally, and spiritually bankrupt, my use of the word “evil” is not in a heaven and hell sense, or a god or the devil kind of way. I’m with Ochberg in that it's just the best word to describe these “people.”
What's also potentially deadly is to go through life refusing to believe these "people" could ever be a family member. The disturbing REALITY of malignant narcissism can be very difficult to accept, but there are dire consequences of allowing one of these "people"  to remain in your life. I have received one too many emails from readers who are on the run, living in fear, and being stalked by a malignant narcissist parent(s). The MN is no longer just a threat to their emotional and psychological health, but a dangerous threat to the very fabric of their existence; including their physical safety. Their stories are Cautionary Tales of law enforcement, lawyers, detectives, restraining orders, suicide attempts, anxiety disorders, PTSD, financial ruin, job loss, kidnapping, ransoms, blackmail, slander, harassment, hiding out in hotel rooms and the list goes on. This stuff is real. I know, I've lived it. There is no rock bottom to the level of malevolance in a malignant narcissist.

They are so gratuitously mean, calculating, spiteful and malicious, and all without motive. They methodically and systematically go about destroying their victim's life by wreaking havoc that is so severe, the damage is often irreparable. That, to me, is far more sinister than simply picking-up a gun and blowing a person's head off.  If you let a malignant narcissist near you, at the very least, you will live in constant fight or flight mode and this state of being is so taxing on the nervous system that it could cause other life threatening illnesses.I posted Kathy Krajco’s article “Self-Preservation Under Narcissistic Abuse” because it clearly illustrates the dangers of malignant narcissism, how narcissistic abuse is indistinguishable from psychopathic behaviour, and why it is so critical to sever all contact with these monsters. One of the key points of Kathy’s article is that the ultimate narcissistic high is to demonstrate absolute power over the victim by somehow making the victim offer themselves up for abuse (bend over for it). This is the kind of power that psychopaths lust after. This is the type of power my MN mother and MN sister want over me.
So, to be blunt, it you are in a relationship with a malignant narcissist, then you are sacrificing your SELF for the narcissist's sadistic pleasures. Believe me when I say;  you can NEVER have a relationship with a malignant narcissist unless they are in absolute control, and that means you are their subservient whipping horse. I don’t care how the narcissist dresses up the abuse, or how fancy the fa├žade of their sadism, or how crafty and cunning their crimes. The reality is this: malignant narcissists are only in relationships with people that allow themselves to be abused and exploited in some way.
As Kathy Krajco wrote in “Self-Preservation Under Narcissistic Abuse”
The art of narcissistic abuse is about the skill in making the victim offer himself up to abuse.
In this way, the malignant narcissist’s mind-set is no different than a psychopath. The narcissist's greatest victory is to abuse, and abuse, and abuse and have their victim come back for more. It brings to mind the comedy Animal House where the fraternity pledges bend-over for it and shout, “Please sir, can I have another!” while the head frat boy whacks them on the bare ass with a paddle. Talk about degrading. But this is no comedy. This is real life, and this sick pleasure is what the malignant narcissist wants and NEEDS. Though it doesn’t have to look like the scene from the film Animal House for the narcissist to satiate their craving for power over you. And remember, the level of abuse escalates with every opportunity.  
I was going to title this post “Sadistic” Malignant Narcissists are Psychopaths, but that would be redundant. ALL malignant narcissists are sadists, and this is why they are indistinguishable from sadistic psychopaths. ALL malignant narcissists are predators, in that they go out of their way to deliberately inflict pain and suffering. The more they hurt others, the better they feel. This is why they are indistinguishable from psychopaths.
Malignant narcissism is about sadistic, twisted malice. They might not leave bloody body parts lying around but they do things so abhorrent, so depraved, and so diabolical that in many ways they are more dangerous than the out of control psychopathic serial killer. For example, it’s far more gratifying for the malignant narcissist – and much safer – to murder someone by driving them to suicide. That’s absolute power. That’s the ultimate narcissistic high. And it’s so much more aggrandizing to the narcissist than plain old fashioned murder.  Besides, the malignant narcissist probably feels above the actual act of murder. What they get off on, is having so much power over another person that they can will their victim to do the killing for them. Or, they drain the victim of their life force leaving them a hollow, walking dead Zombie. How's that for God-like power? Taking life without getting your hands bloodied takes real skill in mind-control, and manipulation and it's  much more satisfying knowing that you will never be viewed as a lowly murderer.  
It’s all about power for the malignant narcissist, and it’s not about power for good, it about power for evil, or power for its own sake. Like the psychopath, the narcissist's drug of choice is POWER and CONTROL over others.
I know all about this. I’ve lived it. My malignant narcissist mother tried to destroy me physically (murder) by using covert suggestions that I commit suicide. I swear, I would find her far less dangerous if she came at me with a butcher knife. There is nothing more sinister, more sadistic or more NARCISSISTIC than someone deluding themselves into thinking they are so POWERFUL they can CONTROL their victim into carrying-out their own murderous impulses. A malignant narcissist trying to manipulate their victim to suicide is also the ultimate in PROJECTION!  They try to dump their homicidal obsessions into you by way of self-masochism. The MN bitch's evil plan didn't work on me. She only proved herself to be more of a threat so I stayed farther away. But all too often it works.

Malignant narcissists crave POSSESSION, and ENSLAVEMENT of their victim.  ABSOLUTE POWER over another is NIRVANA for the narcissist. The kind of power where the victim serves themselves up as an object for the narcissist’s sadistic pleasure is what they live for. This is the POWER RUSH of grandiosity the malignant narcissist is always chasing. It’s the ultimate form of degradation of the victim, and the ultimate high for the narcissist. Malignant narcissists are sadists. They enjoy your pain. We've all seen that little smile and evil smirk.
Never forget that malignant narcissists, like psychopaths, elect to switch the conscience and empathy button to off for EVERYONE but themselves. And I mean EVERYONE. Even their own children, and even their own parents. I know for a fact that neither my malignant narcissist sister nor malignant narcissist mother give a damn about each other. One would think these two bitches are the others biggest supporter and protector, but at the end of the day, they are malignant narcissists.

EVERYONE is just an object to the malignant narcissist, including their fellow malignant narcissist counterparts and accomplices. Not one single motivation of the malignant narcissist is concerned about anyone else’s well-being, including their beloved “Golden Child”.  Malignant narcissists are absolutely incapable of the true emotion of love and compassion for any other human being. So if you think the malignant narcissist parents loves the golden child, think again. From where I sit, the malignant narcissist sees the golden child as nothing more than an “object” of narcissistic supply. So if someone threatens their supply, it may seem like they’re out to protect the golden child, but in reality they’re just protecting themselves. The MN parent may go out of their way to dote over, and promote the golden child but all they are doing is doting over, promoting and protecting their narcissistic stash that they can’t live without, and that they rely on for a boost.
Malignant narcissists wish no one well so the only way the malignant narcissist will show simulated affection for you, is if the malignant narcissist has internalized you as an object of “special” “narcissistic supply.” Scapegoats have been internalized more as a tool for the narcissist to use and abuse as they please. But everyone’s an object to the narcissist; it’s just a matter of what type of value you hold as an object. For example, A lowly tool (the scapegoat) that is available for cruelty and abuse provides an amazing power high to the narcissist and is extremely valuable, but is held in contempt. The object of special narcissistic supply that can glorify the narcissist’s fragile image is also extremely valuable, yet coveted and protected. The malignant narcissist does not want to lose either of these objects. They both satisfy very significant narcissistic needs. However, the narcissist is going to take much better care of a Mercedes than they would a screwdriver. And, if the MN parent treats their child as both, they will degrade the child and aggrandize the child, and they will have created one messed-up psyche. I call my MN sister, my MN mother's Frankendaughter. This is a fact, and it’s one that in many ways smells like sweet justice to me as far as my malignant narcissist mother and sister are concerned. I understand they don’t love or care for one another. They’re incapable of it. They’re malignant narcissists. They desperately need one another, but need is not love. They are dependent on one another, but dependency is not love. The view each other as tools to use and abuse, and as narcissistic supply to feed on.
Malignant narcissists are parasites.  Their relationships are about attaching themselves to a host, feeding off the host and never letting go. You must protect yourself and get far away from the narcissist because if you allow a malignant narcissist to sink their evil tentacles into you, they will only dig in deeper and deeper until there’s nothing left of you or your life.
My MN mother and MN sister exploit each other, they use each other, they cling to each other, feed off each other, and they take and take and take from one another without one ounce of concern as to whether their devouring nature is killing the other. I think this is one of the reason why they are severely mentally disturbed. They are eating each other alive.
Damn! Do they deserve one another. In fact, it comes close to the best punishment I can think of for a malignant narcissist: to be fed on by another malignant narcissist.
A malignant narcissist doesn’t give a crap about anyone but itself. If you can’t grasp that simple reality then you will probably end up being controlled and abused by one as long as it has access to you. If you expend one ounce of energy sympathizing for the plight of the poor malignant narcissist because they didn’t choose to be that way, or you excuse or justify its behavior, or assign the abuse excuse as the cause of its wretched ways, then you will continue to suffer under their tyranny. Believe me when I say, there is no help for these monsters. All signs point to malignant narcissism being a choice. I repeat. Malignant narcissists make a conscious decision to harm others. It’s simple. They are what they are. If you can’t accept the reality of malignant narcissism then you cannot successfully deal with these predators and they will have you eating out of their hands.  And by successfully dealing with them, I mean: getting the hell away from them, and making damn sure they have NO ACCESS to you.  
Another thing to remember about malignant narcissists is that you are dealing with a sadist that has the mentality of a three year old child. They are impulsive, irresponsible, and unreasonable and they feel entitled to do as they please – as long as they can get away with it. They have no regrets, no remorse, they don’t get embarrassed, or feel guilt or shame. As a result, morality has no more influence on a malignant narcissist than it would a child at a pre-conscience stage of development. Scary stuff. This is what makes malignant narcissists dangerous and evil, and unfit for human interaction.
You are but a pretty doll in the nasty child’s hand, and they will yank your head off without a second thought….You are but a putrid bug in the nasty child’s hand, and they will pluck your legs off just to watch you squirm. Sounds like a psychopath doesn't it? As far as I'm concerned, malignant narcissists and psychopaths are one and the same.
When narcissists slither along the continuum beyond deception into contemptible exploitation, despicable opportunism, delusional malice, and unmitigated vindictiveness then they have reached the stage of MALIGNANT and have sunk to the inhuman levels of the psychopath. At this stage, they are SADISTIC, and diabolically so. They act out their cruelest fantasies of a vindictive triumph, in effect saying, “I will frustrate, outwit, and defeat you no matter what it takes!”
And I have heard one too many stories of this psychopathic drive toward a vindictive triumph being played-out by a malignant narcissist mother (and, or father) against their adult child. And there’s no stopping this little old granny because she’s a MALIGNANT NARCISSIST and she has nothing to lose. I repeat: A MALIGNANT NARCISSIST WITH NOTHING TO LOSE IS A DEADLY FORCE.  
Let’s just forget about the little old granny called "mother" part for a second…
A malignant narcissist is a creature that ignores the normal limits of human behaviour, and if they have nothing to lose they will stop at nothing to win the game of cat and mouse. And since they have no capacity to empathize with anyone, nothing restrains them from seriously harming others. Malignant narcissists don't need a motive or a reason to hurt others. They just destroy to continue to feel superior, and from their point of view, their malice is justified because of their pathological need to dominate.   
We should always be judging patterns of behaviour. It’s a person’s behavioural pattern that lets you know how they operate. Put aside the, yes but… she’s my mom, my father, my brother, my sister, my daughter, my son, my wife, my grandmother etc. etc. Put all that aside and say, yes but… she’s filled with ill-will, she's vindicitive, and deceitful.... She's a MALIGNANT NARCISSIST, and she is dangerous, and I need to protect myself.  
Only when you can fully accept and understand the level of malevolence that malignant narcissists are capable of, will you be able to see them for what they are: EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.
Words like mother, father, sister, and brother won’t even enter the equation and you will be able to defend and protect yourself from their irrational malice. Remember: a predator is a predator. If you don't want to be attacked, don't swim with the sharks.


  1. Oh Yeah. Thanks for speaking truth to power (as the MN/Psychopath) is in terms of their relationship to us as kids and later adults.
    Once again a great post. I'm having a hard time deciding which of your posts is the best yet-all speak to my experience.
    Thank you for your "ultimate justice" and your willingness to speak directly to our-or certainly my- experience.
    Good to have you back!

  2. Anonymous,

    Thank you! It's great to hear you're feeling the truth to power.

    It's good to be back and let it rip!

  3. Another great post! You really know how to put all the words together well in describing these phsycos. This is exactly how they are.

    Iam really starting to see that MN and phsycopaths are the same. It's just like alheimers and dementia. They are basically the same. You basically loose your mind.

    Like you, Lisette I've lived with these people and just got done dealing with one. As they all eventually do, this one finally showed their true colors, as I knew they would.

    So I'm officialy done with this MN. I was already nc with other nfoo and this one was the only one that was dangling.

  4. The evil smirk. I remember it well. My ex-husband was seen as kind and shy to the outside world, but not when the front door closed. One day I was so happy because I had brought a plant back to life. It had a clump of new buds on it. My husband walked by it, with a hedge trimmer, and pretended he was going to snip it off. He had the evil smirk. When I left the marriage, I looked like a zombie. For a split second one day, I thought of ending my life. He made me feel that awful about myself. You're right, THEY ARE DANGEROUS!

  5. Wonderful blog! Great Posts!
    It is more than time that someone puts up a blog like this! Thank you for doing such a great job!

    I have a few questions that I always have wondered, do the Malignant Narcissists know what they doing? I mean do they in their mind know for example that yes indeed they are benefiting a Golden Child??? or they do believe they are treating everyone the same???? How strong is their denial or not?????

    Thank you!

  6. Anonymous,
    That's a good question. On the one hand, malignant narcissists know EXACTLY what they are doing. They get off on poisoning relationships and pitting family members against each other - it gives them control and makes them feel powerful. Being the spider in the family web and the voice of authority feeds their grandiosity. They are also sadists and love to be the cause of others painful relationships and personal suffering.

    On the other hand, these freaks are so delusional that they actually believe there is nothing wrong with them. They simply rationalize, deny, dismiss, evade, blame-shift and project all their coldblooded behaviour and calculating ways. They are also pathological liars and they lie to everyone including themselves. Malignant narcissists have been tinkering with reality since day one, and they've warped their minds to the point where they live in a world of make believe, and they've always got the golden child, or some other equally deluded disciple to confirm their twisted unreality.

  7. Thank You, Thank you, Thank you for this blog!! Your above comment also, regarding the MN getting off on poisoning relationships, dividing family members, etc. describes my NM and NSis to a 'T'.

    I cannot express how validating it is to hear of other ACoN's stories to know that I'm not messed up, delusional, or whatever else my FOO tries to pin on me. ;)

  8. Great post! I especially liked your reminder that the Golden Child is NOT loved - they too are viewed as objects to be used by the Narcissist.

    Excellent long blog essay.

  9. PWC,

    Thank you. Yup, we're all just objects to the narcissist. I'm glad I was the one with getaway sticks.

  10. Great post and I surely enjoyed the video, too. I happen to know a little ol' granny-type who is a GRAND narc and she scares the shit out of me. These people are frightening wolves in sheep's clothing. Run from them and preserve your mental and physical well-being.

  11. It's time we acknowledged the evil in our lives in all its nastiness. And it's time for loosing the "label" (mother/father/sister/brother etc.) and facing reality. What the rest of the world/people do with it is their business. But DON'T consider EVER telling this woman how I "should" feel, respond, do, "fix" and all that crap. IMO, if YOU'RE so damn smart, "Christian," "Ghandi" or feel you have the moral high ground, go for it. Just don't look to me for a hand while you're sinking in the quicksand and muck.
    I'm long gone. Consequently, I can't "help" you any more than you "helped" me while you knew/suspected I was being abused but for what ever reason, couldn't be bothered.....................
    Because you acknowledge evil exists in this world in an abstract sense, but NOT in "this family."
    See ya. Or not. It's all the same to me. As long as I'm not involved, I'm safe and safety has been my goal. Don't f with it.

  12. Anonymous,
    Right on! All the power to you! Don't F*** with your safety... EVER. And oh the hypocrisy of those spouting off their abstractions on the existence of evil. Bugger off! There's good in everyone crap makes me want to vomit. Some people are evil - plain and simple... Time to accept it for what it is, no matter what clever disguise it comes in. Evil has always existed... when will the human race ever learn? There is a worldwide denial of the "ordinary" existence of evil. I find it baffling because to me it's so easy to accept... It's simply part of life as a human being. The collective conscious needs to be raised. We need to figure out a way for evil to die off, or send it somewhere else. Too bad about global warming - don't think there's a big enough ice float.

  13. Consider yourself and your blog providing a "Global Service" for sending these purely evil beings off on an "iceberg" somewhere. As long as we-particularly the adult children-start facing AND embracing reality, recognizing we can not instill a conscience where none exists and act on our most primal need for self-preservation, f the label, the DNA relationship and what "others" think: GET OUT NOW. This blog resonates with you? Accept they ARE who they ARE. I can honestly say retrospectively my MN mother did NOT lie per se (although she certainly engaged in horribly duplicitous, nasty behavior throughout her life). I simply could NOT accept for years the implications that my MN mother was just plainly, clearly evil. "The banality of evil" wrapped up in the label "Mother" was horrifying to be raised in; when I stepped away (NC) it became breath-taking in it's manifestations and implications. And as she aged, this apparently "harmless old lady" act continued to pull in others as she lived her parasitic lifestyle, feeding off other people and expropriating their kids-adult or not. By that point I no longer needed or cared about other's perceptions.....and as she burned their asses one after another, I didn't care to hear about it from them either.
    When an adult child terminates a relationship with a parent, very, very leery about your "opinions" and your involvement with this "poor person....her DAUGHTER (gasp!) no longer keeps in contact/does nothing to help" etc. My MN sharpened her claws, shredded her daughter and manipulated/abused this daughter for years. Put yourself "out there" for these people and MN mother will do you EXACTLY the same way.
    So don't cry me a river-I cried my own....and I'm DONE.
    I consider your blog more than a clarion call, an excellent source for information on MNs but a "Global Community Service/Public Announcement." Ignore it at your peril....and don't say you "Didn't KNOW." Adult kids just don't go around willy-nilly terminating parental/familial relationships. And if others choose to NOT factor that HUGE statement in their "opinions" and actions here's an OJT Big Time Lesson In Life commin' right atcha. You won't escape unscathed, nor IMO should you: The "Law of Natural Consequences" and the predictable behavior of the MN ensures the outcome.

  14. Lisette. I have been browsing your blog and after reading this post I think it would be OK to tell you and the posters about my mother and what she did. These people do act out and the threat is real.
    I will make this a just the facts account of what my mother did and if anyone is curious about it they can ask away.
    When I was 8 my mother was having at least two affairs behind my fathers back. One was with my fathers employer. One was with some kid sniffing around my then 15 year old sister. As soon as my mother met up with the kid she started sleeping with him too.
    The boss liked to hang out at the horse track and was known for flashing a roll around for betting and just to look cool. My mother wanted that cash so she lured the boss to a motel under the guise of having sex with him. The kid was to be hiding out somewhere and when my mother and the boss came out he was going to shove a gun in his face and take his roll of cash. They didn't count on the boss smacking the kid around and taking his gun from him. Which is exactly what he did.
    So my mother played like she was too distraught to make good on the sex offer and took off and picked up the kid down the street and came back to the house. When they got to the house she called the boss up and said she had composed herself and to come over and pick up where they left off.
    So the boss comes over. The kid met him the drive way with a tire iron and started beating the boss with it. The boss was losing and he had to know now that it was a set up because our house was a good five miles from the hotel. What are the odds of getting robbed by the same guy twice in one night?
    The boss took off running and the kid shot him in the back killing him.
    They loaded the boss up(it was in the middle of the night) in his own car and drove him out to a country road and parked him there.
    The cops had this solved in less than 24 hours and they both went to jail.
    Well, only the kid got convicted. He got life and paroled out in about 15 years. My mother stood trial and was found not guilty. Only because my father stood by her and bankrupted our family by paying for the best lawyer that Dallas had to offer.
    If you could see her now you would think she was the sweetest old lady you ever met. Behind closed doors she is as mean as a snake. Always was. Always will be.
    True story. All true.

  15. Anonymous,

    YES! YES! YES! Your message reads as a call to arms and I have blog posted it.

    Much thanks for a damn good blast of fighting energy! Couldn't have come at better time for this weary blogger.

  16. q1605,

    Life among these monsters is like living in a thriller. Why wouldn't anyone believe this? Stuff like this is one the news everyday, but no one really gives a damn about the children of these snakes/criminals/psychopaths/malignant narcissist and the hell that the off-spring endures carrying around a true crime story played out by their bat shit crazy, evil parent. We never hear about the carnage of the family members who are forced to bear the burden of guilt and shame for vile acts committed by the MNs. Sweet old lady? Just another MN granny getting away with murder - in all its varying forms. It's time for people to wake-up and sniff-out the diseased souls of the evil among us. It feels shitty carrying around the DNA of these sleazebags, but we aren't them. We didn't get the evil gene... if it's a matter of science, then I hope scientists can one day isolate this genetic mutation and rid the world of evil. Until then, we all better just accept the inconvenient truth that evil walks among us and learn how to discern its presence.

  17. When people question the veracity of my story I always ask them if they ever watch the news. Every town, every day, there is some one with a story just like mine. And every time you see something like this there are a whole web of effected people that no one hears about. I just got tired of not speaking of it. I went NC almost two years ago and I will tell anybody who wants to know.

  18. q1605,
    Yeah, exactly... a whole web of effected people that no one hears about. The web of people is shunned by society for being associated with the pathological. People label families good and bad based on what its members do. We didn't choose our families, but we become ostracised nonetheless for being raised by wolves. They whisper among themselves; He/she doesn't come from a good family - there's a lot of abuse, dysfuntion etc. Stay away. Must be nice to be so high and mighty and perfect. I've known people who won't date anyone from a family of divorce. Who really would go around announcing they're a member of a family freak show?? You just end up being lumped in as a freak too. To hell with being stoic and holding it all in. Or, giving a damn what the callous bystanders living a life of denial think. Their opnions and judgements prove their ignorance. Secrets are like splinters, eventually they have to come out. I'm glad to hear you're NC. It wouldn't surpise me to hear that your vile MN mother, and destructive enabling father are just living their lives as if nothing happened. Ns are really good at tossing out the: get over it, that happened in the past rubbish as well as playing the victim. Even for something as shocking as murder.

  19. If my mother had learned her lesson after all that it would have played out like you say. My mother pretty well kept my fathers head in a paint shaker before during and after her trial. Her appetite for affairs never abated. She would leave him and come back. Leave him and come back. I was so sick of them. The murder was in 1967. Her trial was in 70. And my father committed suicide in 73. That is the unfunny part. I don't think it would have been that hard to get past the murder stuff. But it was pretty sad that he did that.

  20. I know a person on an ACON site that has had experiences that parallel mine. Coincidentally she posted these words less than 24 hours ago on that support group site. If you don't mind I would like to appropriate her words because it explains the affect that has slowly overtaken me since I went NC with the shrew and realized that my mother never gave a rat's ass about anything she ever did, nor how it affected the people around her.........
    These are her words.***********
    I have had many huge, life changing traumas in my life and the result is that I have an abnormally high tolerence level for frightening or dangerous or traumatic situations. I am not shocked or panicky when confronted by these situations. I remain abnormally calm and it is not natural. I react with black humour instead. I can go to work after a huge trauma and nobody would ever know because I behave in my normal fashion - not because I am hiding my feelings. Because I simply don`t feel. Of course this lack of being able to feel as a normal person would, extends to other feelings too e.g. love

  21. q1605,
    No, your mother would never have larned a lesson - that's not her nature. As a result: there is NO result. They NEVER change - no matter what - murder trials, lawyers, jail, the total annihiliation of families and everyone around them... and they get worse with age. I am very sorry to hear about your father. Your mother held him captive and she was an accessory to his murder too. That is sad. Very sad. It makes me angry, and illustrates just how dangerous these monsters are. They ALWAYS burn a path of destruction through life. And, all the fall-out in other people's lives can ALWAYS be traced back to the MNs. They aren't just "bad" people. They are evil creatures whose effects on humanity are far reaching. They slither in and touch the life of one person, and the pain and suffering becomes widepsread.

  22. Q1605,
    Thanks for posting that person's words. She articulates her reaction to trauma very well. I can relate to what she wrote. The numbing out, the black humour. Seems we're either in fight or flight mode. When we flee, we numbed out all our feelings, self medicate any way we can, deflect the pain with humour, isolate etc. Feelings are scary as hell, especially when you've learned that it's very dangerous to have any.

  23. I never held my mother accountable for any of her actions. I was 8 at the time of the murder and 15 when my father died. In those days adults did what they did and kids were seen and not heard.
    Fair enough.
    After my fathers death I got parked at my grandmothers and finished high school and went on to work. I saw her on holidays and not much more. This level of interface continued until I forgot what she was really like.
    Almost three years ago she suffered a small stroke and I moved in with her to help her back on her feet. Big mistake. She hounded me from day one and as her ability to fend for herself increased so did her gaslighting.
    Stuff that was so stupid and childish I wouldn't have believed it if it had not happened to me.
    For instance I had a big calender on the wall to keep track of her meds and doctors appointments. One day she announces that it was gone and wonders where it went. I didn't even go look for it until it was obvious she wasn't going to shut up about it unless I did.
    There were only two people in that house. Me and her. I did nothing with it. I knew I wouldn't find it anywhere in the room because by this time I had figured out she was all about gaming me.
    So she had taken the calender down and hid it somewhere. F'ing insane.
    I want to share the last words I had with her. I had gone to her house to feed her dinner and she started pounding me the second I walked in the door. Just typical N rage. I had enough. She could drive and take care of herself so I bolted.
    I called her a few days later and the instant she picked up the phone she was full tilt N rage. Just raging on me about any and all things I ever did wrong.
    I listened and listened. Finally I said...
    Mom you killed a guy.
    OH I DID NOT!!!
    You may have not pulled the trigger but you were in it up to your neck.
    OH I WAS NOT!!!!!
    Mom you went out and bought a gun the day of the murder.
    I hung up and haven't seen or heard from her in two years. I did write some incredibly obnoxious letters for a couple of months but then I stopped.

  24. I am from Texas. Born and raised. It's in our blood to be a smart ass to the Nth degree. It's killing me to not go full on mocking her. From now on, I am respectfully asking your permission to let her have it in my posts with both barrels.

  25. When I say I forgot what she was like that is not entirely accurate. I never lost the walking on egg shells feeling. I always was filled with this unnamed background static of dread whenever I was supposed to go see her. But she married in about 4 months after my fathers death and she had to keep appearances for him. My step father was a nice enough guy but very flat and one dimensional. I presume he was the guy that created the dust up that pushed my father over the edge. But I was 15 and fifteen year old's were not privy to the workings of adult life.
    I wasn't invited to move in with my mother. Well I was but it was after I turned 18 and she had moved to Kansas City. I had a job and an apartment and was enrolled in a junior college nearby. It made no sense then, but now I think she saw me blooming and wanted to snuff it out.
    When she had her stroke I rode in like a knight in shining armor to care for her. No shit. She had some left side paralysis and was bound and determined to see her make a full recovery. I don't think she wanted to make a full recovery. She fought the physical therapists tooth and nail. When she made it home and had home health care visit her she would do the exercises they recommended one time after they left. I mean one time period. I would tell her that you have to them several times a day every day. She looked me square in the eye and said Oh no. Just the once. She refused and I refused to coddle her like a three year old. I think she would rather stay diminished that do what someone told her to do.
    It gave her less energy to fuel her narcissistic rage.
    I hope I am not monopolizing things here. If I go onto most sights people either think I am an N and am either lying or that I am fostering some sort of pissing contest about who has the worst sociopath. Believe me. If I could rewrite history I would change it all. When my father was in the clutches of the beast he was a pretty cool guy. I was a boy scout and he was the scoutmaster of our troop for a while. I don't really remember what he was like. It's been so long.
    If I have any one message for anybody it's to never believe these people are not capable of doing any gdamn thing they feel like if they think they can get away with it.
    Let me tell you. If the murder cuh-rap is shocking all the filler in the back ground is just as crazy.
    On any given day I wouldn't have been surprised if she went out on the drive way and rubbed shit in her hair.

  26. I reread my last thing. That's not really both barrels. I will tell you thing that stands out over all the others. The one and everlasting constant through every marriage. Every time period in her life. And that is that she screwed every single guy she could get into the sack.
    She screwed all of my fathers friends. I am pretty sure she screwed all of my step fathers friends. She screwed every husband of any of her friends. Every time a door to door salesman came knocking (remember them? there used to be way more of them then there are now) I half expected a clip of throbbing porn music to chime in behind her.
    She screwed my sisters first husband. And my now significant other that used to be my second wife said it's just the grace of god that got you out of her house at 15 because she would have screwed all of your friends. God only knows who my biological father is. I look nothing like my presumptive father.
    And ya wanna know what? I think she abhors sex. To hear her talk about jumping in the rack with a guy is like hearing her talking about finding and removing a dead rat from under her sink.

  27. It's very invalidating to spill your guts and have someone discount it. I don't get that you would ever do this. I won't mention the support group that did, but I was hounded off one. It was right after I went NC and I had never heard of NPD until then. It fit my mother and I joined this group. Only the most vocal of them slowly turned against me and pretty well asked my to leave. I did and only then did I get private e-mails asking me to stay. I was very angry at this point and probably triggered them as much as they did me.
    I took time off and sorted through my feelings and rejoined later.
    I made some good friends there. Ones I am in contact with today.

  28. Wow! I just read a comment that really illustrates how and why N's are so baffling.

    Somebody once said to me: "When I am mad at someone, I will be extra nice for a bit, make them come closer. I can't really punch them hard enough from a distance, they might duck and I might miss."

  29. q1605,
    I've lived that. The MN's feigned interest, kindness, flattery, generosity etc is HIGHLY SUSPECT... It's all a ploy to make you drop your guard, and draw you in closer so they can attack. It's how they operate. They want to get into your head. If I have an uneasy, creepy feeling about someone then I'm going to watch them and discern their patterns (document) so when then try and get close and go in for the kill, I'm prepared. The power of intuition.

  30. I kinda disagree with Dr. Ochberg's solution for dealing with psychopaths in society. Why waste money and resources keeping them alive in incarceration? These people are quite literally *less* than worthless. IMO, normal human compassion and decency towards such individuals is is as misplaced as their utter contempt towards others. It would probably be more rational to just kill them.

  31. q1605, FWIW, here's another poster who believes you and absolutely "gets it" in terms of the the duplicity, gaslit-beyond-belief (please, don't anyone light a match) and experienced a similar situation IRL and in the blogosphere. Even as kids, we KNEW they were wrong, wrong, wrong at every level. Not all "criminals/murders" go to trial even when it's abundantly clear who REALLY "pulled the trigger."

    I'm sorry you had such a nasty experience at what ever site you were posting at the time. I have no doubt I am viewed as "radical," cynical" and probably a bit more than frightening by others at the one other site where I post now.....and that's my "cleaned-up" version of reality/experiences that apparently are offensive to a few others at some level. I have made it abundantly clear from the get I am NOT "PC." And this is a site that includes "Adult Children." I walk a fine line there, no doubt. My attitude is this: Despite all my responses/posts that are qualified by "MY experience with my PDMother," "IMO" or "FWIW" etc. it's like walking on eggshells-AGAIN. I wonder at times why I even bother (and yes, I'm still mulling this over) but I also end up with a bunch of PMs and refer a select few HERE.

    Please keep posting here. The very last response we need from others are those that are minimally invalidating and maximally re-traumatizing all over again. As victims/survivors what ever we are posting on a FORUM. Perhaps I'm incorrect in my understanding/conceptualization; however "IMO" :) it seems to me a true "Forum" invites a whole range of POVs and experiences.

    I have also seen a few really informative posters (ex: They brought in other links, information etc.) "banned" from this other site because they "scared/frightened other posters." WTH? And this is the primary reason why my choice of forums is "House Of Mirrors" and Lisette's informative and supportive blog.

    If we can not speak our truth and have it accepted then we're not only un-welcomed, we're spinning our wheels and "rejected" once again. It appears to me to be nothing more than the admins etc. discomfort with our truth: Of course, if I CHOSE to remain in a relationship with an MN I'd rather not be exposed to the reality your CHOICE effects YOUR kids who HAD NO CHOICE.

    We all NEED to speak up. We're not denigrating MNs so much as we're speaking our truth. And if our truth is somehow offensive to others, well that's not my fault or problem: It's on they can "dress it up and take it out" any way which suits them and reinforces their very apparent agenda and defense mechanisms. It doesn't change our reality or our experiences/perceptions.

    Post on, q1605. And thanks Lisette. It's a joy to find a "place called home" in the ether.


    TRUTH to POWER to q1605, and the rest of us - on too many levels to mention.

    Thank you.

  33. I think it is a bit sad that we meet under circumstance like this. It's great we live in the age of the internet. If not for this, I would have never known that there are others like me.
    I will take cold comfort from this, and hope I can hold some out for you.
    Once we were born, there was no escaping the fate that lay in wait for us.

  34. "We all NEED to speak up. We're not denigrating MNs so much as we're speaking our truth..." @ ANON.

    This idea that WE'RE denigrating MNs is a joke. The MNs did it to themselves. They did it with every malicious act they committed, they did it with every lie they told, they did it with every amoral CHOICE they made.

    Hmmm. MNs deserve fair treatment? Under what law of natural consequences does a shameless, amoral, dishonest and dangerous PREDATOR deserve fair treatment? Tell me, when was the MN showing any humanity to their victim? When was the MN showing any mercy? When was the MN treating their victim with dignity and respect? The answer is NEVER. Sounds like a double standard to me.

    Expressing the truth ( our experiences and insights ) no matter how passionately, is our RIGHT. Anyone who feels ENTITLED to criticize our RIGHT to speak our mind, or attempts to suppress the way we speak it, has their own hidden agenda - actually it's not so hidden. They are no better than the narcissist. They operate exactly as a narcissist does, from above us, as our judge - controlling what we think, believe, feel, say and do, SILENCING the TRUTH, and wanting us to ACT LIKE IT NEVER HAPPENED.

    You've really got to wonder why our TRUTH gets under their skin. I have an idea, but I hate to state the obvious.

  35. When ever people said to Harry Truman to give'em hell.....He always said I just give'em the truth and they think it's hell.

  36. Hi Lisette

    Your account of your family history is chillingly accurate and one i can relate to all too well.

    Over the last 15 years i have come to understand that my brother is a narcissist with (NPD). There have been many episodes throughout our lives that i simply shrugged off as having no real meaning or relevance but with time, the truth reveals these monsters for who they are and what their actions really mean.

    The truth on his NPD came about after we began working together. I suddenly became the target of his NPD ways. He started out as a co-worker, trying to act as a charming helper to everybody, but his attitude quickly changed as his power and influence grew within the company.

    Over time, I found myself being undermined by him when dealing with staff, being belittled, shouted at (in front of staff), ridiculed both in front of staff and behind my back to staff, never being supported on any decision (Even though i was right), being lied to and lied about had become a daily event along with being shut down time and time again with him walking away during important discussions.

    Over time, our staff viewed me as weak and incompetent. To make matters worse, he turned staff members against me and colleagues along with himself wanted to fire me?

    The years of this abuse left me questioning myself, my abilities and me sanity as nothing made sense.

    Then the light bulb moment came when i researched the term narcissistic personality disorder, everything began to make sense.

    Narcissists are the original sheeps in wolves clothing, often using the relationship bond as the cloak of deception, i mean who would suspect a family member(parent,sibling or spouse) or a dear friend of many years of wanting to destroy them ? Perfect camaflage !!!

    NPD's are highly skilled actors/bullies who have mastered the art of administering criticism disguised as help or advice.

    NPD's usually wage a long campaign of eroding your self esteem, self confidence and well being by chipping away with small critical comments and actions designed to make you question and doubt yourself.(Long before you would have even know that you were a target)

    NPD's will steal anything of value that belongs to you be it money, your possessions, your achievements etc, often passing them off as their own.

    NPD's will go after your reputation too, telling lies and painting a bad picture of you to all who will listen, including other family members, friend and even spouses and often successfully turning people against you, remember they are "Skilled actors and liars with years of practice".

    In time,you will see the legendary NPD rage and anger come to the surface and the monster will be revealed to you but not to all, as in balance to this, the NPD cultivates a very clinical public persona, as a good, kind, thoughtful, charming person (Remember Wolf in sheep's clothing) this too is part of their arsenal of weapons against you, for good, kind, charming people are far more likely to influence other right ?

    Ultimately there is no cure for people with NPD. They DO NOT CARE about you or the damage caused by their actions to you or anybody else.

    A signature of dealing with a person with NPD is the enduring sense of feeling physically and mentally drained.

    There is no rational or logical discussions to be had with a person with NPD. You cannot reason with them or convince them, as they are gods to themselves and slaves to their own wills and desires.(This is what leaves us drained, trying to find logic were there is none)

    The benefit of the doubt is simply a luxury nobody can afford when dealing with a person with NPD.

    In surviving these monsters, knowledge of how a person with NPD operates and is motivated is key, as well as the courage to limit contact or cut them out of your life will enable the sheep to outwit the NPD wolf, as their greatest weakness is an inability to learn, as they believe they know it all.Time to reclaim your life and live happily ever after.

  37. I was the golden child. I fell from grace on Christmas Day this year when I questioned my 62 year old MN mom about her crush on a 32 year old death metal lead singer. The golden child is never loved - only valued as an ally that the MN believes is a fully compliant reference that can be called on to defend their self-perception. The golden child is only valuable inasmuch as they can be used by the MN to relieve any feelings they may have of self-doubt. As a golden child, you have no value outside of this task, and if you fail, or if you become non-compliant, you can expect to be demonized instantly and with a loud explosion. But it is far better to experience this and have that false idea of love shattered - otherwise you may seek out as friends and lovers only those who are compliant to your wishes - and this kind of love is nothing more than autoeroticism masked or deflected. No true intimacy is possible following this model.

  38. Anon, is your mother treating you as the scapegoat now and being the GC, did you see these things long ago before she discarded you?
    What made you want to continue in the roll of the GC?

  39. I hope anon(Golden Child) will eventually answer my questions. Everytime I ask a GC questions about their envolvement with the narcs, they never seem to want to answer back.That makes me suspicious of their intent.

    1. The comment gave me a weird vibe. I found it robotic and text booky. I'm a little suspicious too.

    2. From my experience, the Golden Children are usually narcs themselves.Most love their statis and the perks(money,etc) they get as the GC. It would be pretty rare for one to give up all of that.And being that they are narcs themselves, they really don't care about the truth.

  40. Thank you so much for informing others on the topic of malignant narcissism. I have lived in hell for many years not knowing exactly what to call this. As of about a year ago, I'm in the process of healing and accepting that both of my parents have psychopathic tendencies. It is a difficult thing to accept, but one we must or risk annihilation at the hands of these killers. I like many of you am on the run. I have moved 3 hrs away from my parents, but did not fully understand the depravity or lengths that they would go to to find my husband and I. We are having problems once again. PLEASE take it from someone who has learned the hard way. Once you disappear from these individuals, do not make the mistake of letting them know where you are. My parents are actively involved in a harassment/ stalking campaign against me for many years. Now that I am safe from their clutches, they are coming after my husband. I've had to place a protective order on them, and am even looking for other legal avenues to protect myself and my life.

    Blessings and safety to all who have lived to tell this story.

  41. I no longer worry about my narcissistic parents after discovering my brother is a sociopath. He is much scarier.

  42. My mom and sister both NPDs feed off each other for years! I did not spend much time with either to protect myself. My mom passed and now my sister is constantly trying to feed off me.... she has brought nothing but hell into my life. Whatever I do or say gets a nasty comment. Always talking down to me, to build herself up.
    Stealing, breaking and damaging my things.
    Its sad.... I consider myself a super survivior! I lived through so much,with a jealous mother, and a jealous sister.
    I have founds ways to tune and turn them off :)!

  43. Being around people with NPD is like living in the Twighlight Zone. I catch myself sometimes saying in my Urkel voice "Did they really do that". They make it seems that being normal is the exception.

  44. If a love interest has lost a former partner to suicide is this a red flag?

    1. Yes, I would say it's a red flag, but one that needs to be explored further. For instance, what is the love interest's "pattern" of choices in partners? Does the LI have a history of seeking out emotionally unstable, needy, dependent, vulnerable people? Do they thrive on drama? What's the love interest's take on ex-partners? Are the referred to as "crazy" or pitied. How does the love interest present themselves in relation to their ex partners? Do they place themselves above, say in a savior, guru, or parental role?

      Questions need to be asked. Patterns need to be established in order to determine if the suicide is a red flag of pathological behavior on the love interests part. One thing to keep in mind though, is normal people get involved with borderlines without having any idea of what they are gettting themselves into.

  45. Can anyone help?

    How do you stop an MN person?

    Our daughter in law is a MN and is very dangerous. We believe she will stop at nothing. She controls our son and now he is totally different person. He is very hateful to us and blames us for her lies. We contacted her estranged parents and they informed us that they had to get her out of their lives before she destroyed them, even if that meant never seeing their grand children again.

    She has been in our lives for eight months and it has been hell. We have had to contact the police because she is trying to steal my identity. But, they just tell us to wait for her next move....then it will be too late.

    We are so worried about our son and really do not have any idea of what to do to help. Does anyone have any ideas?

    1. "how do you stop an MN person?" You don't. Her family couldn't even handle her. There's nothing that you can do about your sons relationship with her. Nothing you say to him will change his mind.He has to come out of denial on his own. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with this bull****. For your own sanity, have nothing to do with her. Also, being that your son is taking her side and being hateful towards you, you may end up having to distance yourself from him. It is not fair that we are the ones who end up hurt and screwed because of these freaking people.

  46. hey ,

    I need some advice. I recently broke up with my ex. I suspect he has some narcissistic tendencies, Please someone validate me if you think so. Here is the story , it was all rosy in the begining, N said everything in his life was perfect and that i am perfect and that is why he is with me. He stopped talking to some of his close relatives because of small fights. he used to get very angry abt them. I was initially worried abt his anger with them but with me he was very patient. Later at one point he dint like me having guy friends , one of my friends had a crush on me few years back but v remained friends. when i told him this he reacted severly and asked me to stop talking to him. from that day i did everything he asked me to do. I stopped talking to my other guy friends too, evrytime he used to give reasons why i should not talk to them. He used to talk me into doing it. Even after that he was very suspicious. N started to make comments about my character. He used to call the guy who had a crush on me as my ex. I tried to explain, i thought he was insecure coz im better looking.. so i was very patient. N used to tell me that he was clean and he never had past but i was the one who dint give him exclusivity. It used to hurt a lot but i tried to make him se things as they are. Later after months i found out that he was in 3 year relation before me and he just broke up before we getting together. Why was he hippocrite?? was it because he was an N? he also lied to me abt his drinking , smoking and career. I finally lost trust and told him i cant it take it anymore. He told me he realised how unfair he was to me.. I like a fool gave him chance. I dunno what but he started blaming me and devaluing me so much. He screams at me that we are even now and i shouldnt make a big deal abt his lying abt the relationship he had.. i was shocked, i myself told abt me to him in the begining. he never told me abt his relationship instead he used to claim that he was clean. I tried to knock some sense into him , i din realise but i was also shouting like him and at the same time urging him to be fair. I usually never shout in the end i found myself trapped in some rage feeling crazy. Whenever i get insecure that he would lie to me like before he used to tell me that i am acting insecure to take revenge on him for being suspicious about me. I have to admit good times were really good amidst all this drama but in the end i din like myself. I was shouting at him to make him see the point , again i used to regret for doin that. I started changing. he used to react severly to any criticism. i finally told him i cant handle this and at that point he devalued me so much i just hung up. Later he dint call me and it has been two weeks. Heard from common friends that he complaned abt me saying that i was needy , clingy or din give him his space and that he left me for the same reason. His friends support his lies and sympathise him. I dunno what to do. Why am i so eager to make him see who i am , i am even getting this urge to talk to his friends and make them see what i am? Will there be happily ever after phase if i stop asking him questions about his whereabouts and habits? was i right leaving him? I personally don have the energy to deal with him. sometimes it was verbally abusive. He is blaming me so much i don understand what i should be doing. I even changed my career plan and took a year break for him , he forgot what all i did and how patient i was with him. Im full of resentment. Someone please help me.

  47. I've been estranged from my father for two years. After a brief dating relationship with an MN, I now realize he is also one. The only contact I've had with him is via email and once when I picked up a piece of mail. He isn't there when I get it - I can't stand the thought of seeing him. And when I went to get the mail last time I had a panic attack and had to turn around. I took Xanax the next day and went.

    Anyway, he's 80. And I'm an adult child that severed ties. My 40 y/o sister who's been living with him for years just got diagnosed with MS. That one's taken care of I guess. So I'm afraid now.

  48. p.s. still anonymous. NO WONDER I'VE HAD SUCH A HARD TIME MOVING FORWARD IN MY LIFE! I only just realize two years ago that both parents were hurting me.

    3 years ago, my mother (who I am not physically afraid of actually) had my cat put to sleep without telling me or my sister (who was caring for him as I was out of the country). I have not spoken to her since.

    She has been saying for years now that our father "wants us dead" and we've been laughing at her.

  49. Well, I got super depressed at the difference between the abused and the coveted supply. I was definitely abused and now discarded for a beauty queen (literally) so I guess he'll treat her like gold and that is very depressing.

    1. Anonymous,

      I wrote this post from the point of view of a daughter of a MN mother with a MN sister. I was treated with indifference or outright abuse. MN sister was doted on and engulfed by MN mother. MN mother was just protecting her supply which is really just an extension of her "self". She knew damn well I was repulsed by her, and wasn't about to go to the dark side. So I was treated with malice and cruelty. She got a big power rush over abusing me. I was a child trapped in a MN cult. There wasn't much I could do to defend myself. MN sister is weak and controllable - she obeys MN mother. MN mother is also weak and controllable and obeys MN sister. The two freaks feed each other (supply), and feed off each other (abuse). It really is a gruesome twosome. Actually, gruesome threesome. MN father is their silent partner in their abuse of me.

      Relationships with Ns in the area of romance are different than in N families.

      N men go through predictible cycles with ALL of their objects/partners - idealize, devalue, discard. It doesn't matter that the new source of supply is a beauty queen, she will eventually be devalued. In other words, she too will be abused. And, it goes without saying, because Ns get bored easily and are always craving new sources of supply, the ex N will lie to, cheat on, and deceive her too. Not to mention, the brain washing and psychological abuse he will inflict on her to keep her under his control. The "honeymoon" period will not last long. As soon as the new supply source is secured, the mask will come off. The beauty queen's nightmare has only just begun. Narcissists NEVER change. EVER. Your ex N will repeat the same pattern with her, as he has with all his supply.

      He will fake normalcy with her as long as he has to and then his mask will slip for good. Your ex is a N. He is what he is. It doesn't matter how shiny the new object, it will be abused by the N because that's the Ns true nature. Ns harm the ones closest to them and save the false image for the outside world. Narcissists are abusers, period. They don't have relationships, they create dominance bonds.

      Getting "discarded" by a narc, or breaking the dominance bond is the best thing that can happen. The longer one is under the destructive influence of a Narc, the worse off they will be. People who stay under the control of narcs, and stick around to feed them are esentially eaten alive. Think souless zombies.

  50. lisette, thanks for referral to acon; it has a link of some kind to a screed against jesus and i wonder if a person needs to be agnostic or atheist to feel welcome in this comfort zone of anti-abuse--i'm my own kind of christian: radical and anti authoratarian; jesus brought a sword and didn't consider the family above the law, putting truth and love before it too. is there room for me here? i hope so--this blog of yours is so good; the best. thank you...

    1. I don't know what link you are referring to. When I speak of ACON, I mean adult children of narcissists and the blogs they write. I am not a member of any ACON forums, I just stick to the blogs written by ACONs. For example, the ones on my blogrole at the right of the page, and those listed under Kick Ass sources of info on NPD.

      Yes, of course you are welcome here. I try and stay away from the topic of politics and relgion and just keep the focus on what is a narcissist and what we can do to protect ourselves.

    2. thanks for that as well. i don't know how i got to it--it was a direct connection tho, to "illimunati knews" which delivers a mixed bag from what i could see. ill try to figure it out and let you know. the acon blog ( or site?) has some very good info that i'm glad to have, and now i'll check out the kick ass site too. thanks a lot. i'll pass the word.

  51. Lisette, Thank You. I have finally gained the courage to fight back, I vow to expose my malignant bitch mother. After 33 years of her shit, I revoke the privilege to screw me and my sister over. I have learned to deal in facts not emotion. I went no contact over a year ago, but she, being the psycho that she is, failed to respect that. So I have started to make police reports, document every little thing she does to my sister and I. To my dismay I found an officer at my local substation who has helped and guided me. It was a little overwhelming to find someone who BELIEVED me. It is exciting and scary to have a world of possibilities open up to you after you have been under the NM's spell for so many years. I am in school getting a degree and raising a daughter of my own. My husband is my rock, he pushes me to be independent and was the first person to point out that my mother was fucking crazy. I have my life back. We are survivors and I wish you all the best. May you continue to heal and sort through shit bag of emotions we were handed by our fucked up parents.