Thursday, 16 August 2012

Malignant Narcissists in Cyberspace: Shilling for "Supply" and the Cult of Self-Anointed "Healers"


By Tundra Woman, Guest Blogger
There is nothing more appalling or instructional than an actual “Show and Tell” aka “Dog and Pony Show” of a Malignant Narcissist utilizing all of the tactics and techniques we Adult Children of Narcissists have endured since the time of our birth.
Within our community we have a number of excellent Bloggers including recognized, well respected “Reference Blogs,” among them, Anna V’s “Narcissists Suck,” “Luke 117 Ministries,” the late, great Kathy K’s “What Makes Narcissists Tick” and Lisette’s “House of Mirrors” which are but a few of the finest resources to whom we Adult Children are privileged to have access. We no longer are left to ponder our own abuse, confusion, fear, hopelessness etc. feeling the weight of abject aloneness as we muddled our way through our lives secondary to the vagaries of the circumstances of our births in the days before technology. The collective knowledge of these Bloggers, their willingness to share, to learn from one another as well as such luminaries as Frank Ochberg and Robert Hare have been a gift to us all.
Unfortunately, there are those ubiquitous MNs actively cruising around cyberspace voraciously seeking their fix of “Supply” who have the typical ethics of a snake, exhibit a complete absence of conscience, morals and ethics (hmm, don’t we all know about THOSE qualities) and find stealing from an ACoN’s Blog a source of “Supply”. Recently, Lisette from HOM found herself the recipient of such blatant demonstrations, as presented here in all its “gory.”
Read it and nod, reflecting as we ACoNs do in recognition of the malevolence of which we had the unfortunate and unchosen experience commencing when the sperm torpedoes the ovum: It commences like most seemingly simple requests – please attribute or remove my copyrighted material from your site:
Date: Mon, Aug 6, 2012 @ 12:08 AM (Eastern Standard Time)
From: Lisette
To: AfternarcissisticAbuse

Hello,
It has come to my attention that you have made unauthorized use of my original written material on your Facebook page and you have neglected to give me credit or included a link to the original articles on my House-ofMirrors.blogspot.com.

On June 29, 2012 you posted 9 status updates on your FB page plagiarizing my words. On June 30th, 2012 you posted 8 status updates plagiarizing my words. Further, you copied and pasted an article from my blog onto your Wordpress blog. The article entitled “Victims of Narcissistic Abuse Should NOT be Revictimized” is the title I gave to the article that I printed out in 2008 and that did not have an original title. The introduction that I wrote for the article you plagiarized and then quoted in part of your FB page and tagged it as wp.me.

I don’t mind people borrowing material, as long as I am given credit as the author and a link is provided to my blog and the article.

I ask that you kindly remove all of my written material from your Facebook page and wordpress blog OR grant House-of-Mirrors.blogspot.com due credit, and provide a link to all the articles by 6pm (EST) Tuesday August 7, 2012. Should you fail to do so, I will be forced to take further action.

What you have done is dishonest and exploitative and suggests a sense of entitlement that I have yet to experience with others in the online community.

I hope you take this opportunity to do the right thing and correct your mistake.

Lisette
House-of-Mirrors.blogspot.com

Note the date, the time as evidenced by Lisette’s email, addressed to a site called “After Narcissistic Abuse – There is Light, Life & Love” (aka “ANA”) addressing both the Blog and the Facebook page and specifies the dates, details etc. of the site’s unauthorized use of her original, legally protected material. Simple request – please attribute my material or remove it. Couldn’t be any clearer, right? Watch what happens.



Date: Mon, Aug 6, 2012 @ 12:31 AM (EST)
From: AfterNarcissisticAbuse
To: Lisette

Oh we are sorry. Complete oversight as we are a conduit page sharing for educational purposes with NO financial gain but the intent to pass along information from the public domain under fair use laws to victims of narcissistic abuse.

Weve removed your article from the blog and wont use your material in the future. If you have the links to the other fb posts, we’ll remove those if you don’t wish the survivors on the page to see those without giving you credit.

We’ve been targeted by a smear campaign by a bully that was removed from the page for harassment. We’ve ALWAYS MADE KNOWN and include a disclaimer that we abide by fair use laws & the INTENTION is NEVER to do as your claiming – and intentionally passing it off as our own; calling the page owner dishonest is a stretch toward the personal character of the page owner, when there’s no reason for doing so.

We appreciate the work you’ve done to help healers – if You’d like to forward the email, we’d like to pass it along to the proper authorities as we are pursuing this matter.

Thank you,
ANA

Note the “complete oversight” – hmm… the material Lisette is referring to on the ANA blog is not even a week old, ANA states that the material HAS been removed, the site is a “conduit page” for “educational purposes” (WTF? It’s still copyrighted material. Who’s the “researcher” for this so called “educational purposed conduit”site?) with “NO financial gain.” So, where is the “Over-sighter” to ensure such “Oversights” aren’t “Under-sighted”?

As if any of this obfuscation, also known as denying, minimizing and rationalizing in any way negates STEALING someone else’s original material, further muddying the waters with the “Woe-is-We” (whoever the hell “WE” actually ARE) by a “Bully.” (Can you imagine?!) Could this be projection?

Note “After Narcissistic Abuse” (aka ANA’s) slippery manipulation tactic as she “tries” to guilt Lisette into giving up her work without credit:

“If you have the links to the other fb posts, we’ll remove those if you don’t wish the survivors on the page to see those without giving you credit.”

ANA has a couple of options: keep the material up and source it so her readers can have access to the entire article not just incongruous snippets. OR, remove it. After Narcissistic Abuse flat out refuses to give Lisette credit, and it then becomes Lisette’s fault for "not wishing” the “survivors” on ANA’s FB page see the posts. See how the Malignant Narcissist behind “After Narcissistic Abuse” flings around her BS so the clean gets dirtied-up with her crap?

As you read further, all this woe-is-me crap becomes a glaring example of Projective Identification. As “Chris” stated at the very end of her phenomenal treatise, "Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers" “When all else fails, she plays pathetic.” (sic) And what does this have to do with anything except a bunch of transparent excuses for THEFT of someone else’s material?

How interesting the “financial gain” aspect should arise – what’s the point? Legally protected material is legally protected material, period, the end. MNs don’t need “financial gain” to gain what they really REALLY crave: ATTENTION. And this one’s been busted and she knows it. (This is not, by any means, the first time she’s been called to task for copyright infringement/plagiarizing/theft).

Also, Lisette has NEVER claimed to be a “Healer” nor do any of her published and copyrighted materials within her Blog indicate any desire to “Help Healers.”  

ANA SHOULD feel she’s under siege.  The lying, thieving, posturing wanna-be “guru” behind “After Narcissistic Abuse” has stolen from other sites/publications and pissed off a fair number of her previous “followers.” After immediately snuggling up to anyone who does appear to have credential she can use – ANA jumps all over them, then dumps them, the second they tell her, “Hey, you can’t steal stuff without citing sources(S).”

I bet she goes wild every time someone hits “Like” on her Farcebook page, preening, “See how GREAT I am?” Great at being a LYING, thieving con.



Now, watch the unfolding of yet MORE MN tactics as Lisette calls ANA on her BS:

Date: Mon, Aug 6, 2012 @ 1:08 PM
From: Lisette
To: Afternarcissisticabuse

Your disclaimer seems to have been posted today. So you are lying when you say “We’ve ALWAYS MADE KNOW… “And as far as your disclaimer goes, it is NOT fair use to quote author’s work without giving credit. Kindly remove all of my posts of June 29 and 30th from your FB page. It is not MY job to provide you with links. You took from me without permission, and on top of that you didn’t give me credit. You have 17 posts to remove. Don’t play dumb. You know what you stole from me, not to mention the countless articles you have ripped off from the late Kathy Krajco, and others.

I am at a loss as to why you refuse to provide credit to the author or a link back to the original article. You are doing your readers a disservice by butchering articles and posting disjointed pieces of the works. Not to mention how exploitative it is to the writer to have their intellectual property stole and then undergo a hatchet job.

I’m not buying your poor me victim act. I am absolutely disgusted that I have had to take precious time out of my life to hold you accountable for your wrong doing. I’m on the writer’s side not yours. Remove my posts from your FB at once. As I mentioned in my last email to you, if you fail to do so, I will take further action. The least of which will be reporting you to FB, and warning others of your unethical behaviour.

Lisette

Lisette has now busted “them” for their reactive “Disclaimer” which indeed did NOT appear prior to Lisette letting the ANA site KNOW she’s on to their BS and in fact, they have not removed the material of June 29th and 30th from the Facebook page. But wait! There’s MORE!!

Date: Mon, Aug 6, 2012 @ 14:08:28 – 0700
From: AfternarcissisticAbuse
To: Lisette

Please send me the links & I will remove your content. Otherwise, I don’t know which it is.

If youd please forward the email of the person telling you where these items are, I’d again be more than happy to respect your request.

All the aggression and hostility – and attempts to name call, blame & INFORM ME, of what my intent is, is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY AND WILL BE REPORTED AS WELL.

Again, MORE than happy to remove your work – as I do NOT want to use it.

Thanks,
ANA

Now it becomes Lisette’s – the property owner’s responsibility – to appraise ANA YET AGAIN of which LINKS on her FB page, stating (get this) they don’t know what they STOLE, so now they’re gonna “play dumb.” (Selective amnesia). Further, they are engaging in a “Fishing Expedition” to see just how much of Lisette’s STOLEN material she is AWARE of AND seeking the email of who might have informed Lisette of the theft in which ANA has oh – so – deftly attempted to deny. And as if Lisette herself isn’t aware of when and where her material is expropriated.



So Lisette, the victim of the scamming, nefarious ANA responds yet AGAIN, with specific examples of all 17 plagiarized posts.

Date: Mon, Aug 6, 2012 @ 14:08:28
From: Lisette
To: ANA

Whatever ANA. You are really wasting my time, and once again I have to do the work to get you to do what’s ethical. There are 16 posts in total to be removed. I will be checking in later to see that it’s done. It’s a relief to me that you don’t want to use my intellectual property because it’s not yours to use, and I don’t want to be associated with your FB page.

Remove all of the content from the posts on your FB page of June 29th that begins as follows:
1.      The narcissist isn’t about to give away all their personal information…
2.      All narcissists are inveterate snoops…
3.      Narcissists are moral imbeciles and they aren’t safe…
4.      In the end is it really worth it to call a narcissist on their crap…
5.      Narcissists can behave “normal” sometimes when they’re…
6.      Being trained to put up with narcissistic abuse goes something like this…
7.      Try to reason with a narcissist and explain to them how they hurt you is as futile as explaining quantum physics to the cast of Jersey Shore.
8.      Don’t be a sucker for the Rat Game…
9.      Malignant narcissists are not normal. They never have been normal…
Remove all of the content from the posts on your FB page of June 30th that begin as follows:
10.  I worked for an extreme narcissist…
11.  A narcissists’ ego does not have the ability to admit defeat…
12.  A relationship with a narcissist is a non-relationship…
13.  A narcissist needs a subservient whipping horse…
14.  Some people can’t stand to refer to themselves as victims…
15.  This stuff is real. I know. I’ve lived it…
16.  The survivors of narcissistic abuse are not just strong people…

I hope this puts an end to your nonsense, including sending ridiculous comments to my blog.

Lisette

This of course, was NOT the end of “After Narcissistic Abuse,” aka “ANA’s” nonsense. Surprise, surprise!  There’s MORE!!

ANA does not remove Lisette’s written material, and instead posts her emails on her Farcebook and titles the status updates “Online Harassment.” She intentionally withholds from her readers the above email where Lisette gives specifics of each copyright infringement.  ANA’s Kool-Aid guzzling mob goes in for the kill and a lynching ensues.

Lisette and her Blog becomes the target of a smear campaign courtesy the “ANA Fam.” That’s what the deluded little Diva behind “After Narcissistic Abuse – There is light, Life & Love” likes to refer to her brainwashed followers.  So, hate-filled diatribes pour in, including a few paranoid hysterics who frantically suggest the police and FBI should go after Lisette!! Outrageous and absurd doesn’t begin to describe what happens when you expose the greedy, thieving, entitled nature of a malignant narcissist. I believe Lisette once referred to it as, “The stuff of fiction.”

Lisette is completely unaware that she is being hung out to dry on ANA’s Facebook page until she receives an anonymous tip via email from another one of ANA’s many targets who has also approached her regarding her plagiarism, only to be swiftly banished from court.

In the meantime, ANA sits back (with a smug smirk), and experiences an orgasmic power high from all the misplaced loyalty and attention she receives from these “ANA Fam” fools. She also continues to feign innocence and responds to her messianic devotees with comments such as, “I would love to remove Lisette’s posts, but I can’t “find” the material.”  This, despite Lisette’s explicit descriptions, and exact location of the material. Got that?

It’s ANA’s sneaky passive/aggressive way of saying, “I’m so much SMARTER than YOU Lisette” sense of superiority and how DARE you tell me what to do. No one, but NO ONE is allowed to eclipse this MN’s bull-shit site. It’s also another of the “With Holding” tactics mentioned in one of Kathy Krajco’s posts where she points out that in typical MN fashion, even if they have no use for the “toy” and even if it’s not their “toy” in the first place, like a three year old, if they know you want it, they’ll be sure you don’t “get” it.
And check this out!! While all the Farcebook abuse of Lisette rages on, ANA posts the following in another status update:

“No greater calling card, does a narc leave than to gather up their accomplices to create a smear campaign designed to harass & harm those they view as enviable.”

Wow! Talk about blatantly unmasking herself. But ANA of “After Narcissistic Abuse” is a MALIGNANT NARCISSIST and lacks self-awareness, so she is completely oblivious to her shameless, hypocritical and parasitic way of being.




So Lisette is forced to contact ANA yet AGAIN.

Date: Tue, Aug 7, 2012 @ 14:36:00
From Lisette
To: Afternarcissisticabuse

ANA,
I have sent you three private emails asking you to remove my content from your FB page. Despite me giving you specific details of the material and where it is located (June 29th and 30th), you have failed to remove it, and instead embarked on a slander and abuse campaign of me on your FB page and now on your Wordpress blog afternarcissisticabuse.wordpress.com.

Why exactly are you slandering me, and crying harassment when I simply asked you to remove my unauthorized written work from your FB page, or provide a link? I understand that you are not a writer and see nothing wrong with stealing other’s material, but do authors really deserve to be attacked, abused, and slandered simply because they are trying to protect their property?

I hope you’re enjoying the attention you’re receiving from abusing and slandering me, because it’s about to get worse. The page on your wordpress blog has been copied from its original form from your FB page with the original usernames that have made malicious comments. As long as you keep that post up, you are keeping yourself wide open for a defamation lawsuit. Your choice.

I am stunned that you have reacted so viciously to me merely because I asked you to remove my material that you took from my blog without permission and posted on your FB page without credit. I also cannot understand why it still hasn’t been removed. People are calling you “scary” and “dangerous” and I have to agree.

Lisette

ANA replies. Note her blessing by “God” (aka ANA) at the end of the email.

Date: Tues, Aug 7, 2012 @ 5:09:56 PM

If there is ANYONE of you who wish to have me remove something you want me to remove. SEND ME A LIST AND THE LINKS.

I will remove them, and THIS IS THE LAST CONVERSATION I WANT WITH ANY OF YOU.

PERIOD. ABSOLUTELY NOT ONE MORE CONVERSATION.  Devoid ALL YOUR PERSONAL ATTACKS from the emails that include your links and they will be DELETED!

Whoever it was that said their email was included and that you didnt know anyone on this horrible email string. PLEASE KNOW, I dont know you - You are linked because of the group listed on the emails. Not by me. I dont know ANY OF YOU.

Thank you all, may you be blessed with God's peace.

Ana

So Lisette has to ONCE AGAIN re, re, re-send ANA the entire list of all her plagiarized material.


  

Date: Aug 7, 2012 @ 5:27:24 PM
From: Lisette
To: ANA
 I sent you a list of the posts that I want you to remove in my email to you of August 6th. There are 16 posts in total over June 29 and 30th. I have given you more than enough information to locate and remove them. Everyone else who goes to the pages in question has no problem finding my work.

I would appreciate immediate removal of my material and hope that your efforts will finally lay this matter to rest.

Here, once again, is the list….

Lisette

ANA emails Lisette the following “narcissistic tantrum” on August 7, 2012 and blatantly LIES – “claiming” that Lisettes’s post will be removed by the weekend.

From: Afternarcissisticabuse
To: Lisette

Theyll be removed by the weekend.
DO NOT EVER! CONTACT ME OR MY PAGE, OR MY BLOG AGAIN.
NEVER.
YOUR THINGS WILL BE REMOVED FROM OUR DOMAIN WITH GLADNESS.
CEASE & DESIST.

Behold the "CEASE & DESIST." Behold the OFFENDER "ANA" crying out for the victim - Lisette - to shut the hell up!  Typical narc. 

NOTE: As of the date of this Blog Post August 16, 2012 Lisette’s posts have NOT been removed from the “After Narcissistic Abuse” Facebook page.  Indeed, “ANA” continues to play little games of cat and mouse, hiding and unhiding the month of June which contains Lisette’s copyrighted materials.

This utterly shameless MN, “ANA” has proven (in writing no less) to be exactly what Lisette pegged her as – AN EXPLOITATIVE, ENTITLED, PATHOLOGICAL LIAR. Funny how these MNs ALWAYS give themselves away.

Ever get the feeling, my sistah and brotha ACoNs we’re right back with the MN parents? Gaslight, deny, minimize, rationalize, obfuscate, outright lie, malign, slander, abuse and demand “explanations” a la where you received your information, place the victim – Lisette – on the defensive by the Perpetrator/ANA of the REPEATED THEFTS of her material. Ahhhhh! Here we are, right back in good ol’ MN – ville, the “Family Home.”

This “After Narcissistic Abuse” person, screen name “Michelle” is a self-proclaimed “Healer,” a “Christian.” No credentials. No credibility. States she was in a relationship with a narc.

Are we to believe that – or anything else this person purports to have done or been – or do or be – as actually factual? Who do you believe? ANA/”Michelle” or your lying eyes?  As ACoNs we have a very different experience than those in ADULT relationships entered into freely with other ADULTS. Our relationships were UNCHOSEN. We were CHILDREN, dependent on our abusers for our very survival, and had NO recourse – like divorce.

Further, Lisette received nasty grams from the equally unethical “followers” of the Cult of Michelle such as the following from the insipid “Elizabeth” who informed Lisette that “I have never lived with a narcissist but my husband’s ex is one… and “stuff” gets stolen all the time on the internet… so get over it.”
Excuse me, but since when is theft acceptable? Morally? Ethically? Legally? And just because it “happens,” that makes it acceptable? I think not. However, if that WERE the case, I do believe Ms. Elizabeth should give me her financial information so I can utilize it because THAT happens all the time as well. Ever heard of identity THEFT? In much the same vein, my account information is available at the institution where I bank; does that mean those who are privy to it SHOULD simply help themselves because they CAN?

“All thefts damage the victim. The offender is responsible for REPAIRING the damage and that’s what healing is = repairing damage.”

See Fuzzy Morality by Kathy Krajco - What Makes Narcissists Tick.

Clearly, this statement by “Elizabeth” is as transparent and odious as the site she professes to “follow.” Effectively, in making such a statement, Elizabeth is committing the classic “Sin of Sodom,” telling Lisette she should just “Bend over for it.” So much for “Christian” morality.

The indicators of Malignant Narcissism are clearly present both with the “Michelle” persona and contained within her “After Narcissistic Abuse – There is Light, Life & Love” Blog and Facebook.  Regardless of which source one wishes to cite, narcissists are fundamentally PREDATORS. And what is theft BUT PREDATION? As a “Christian” one would assume those who embrace Religious orientation answer to a “Higher Power” than themselves certainly, and to the Commandment: “THOU SHALT NOT STEAL.”

As consummate LIARS, MNs are both proactive and reactive (as aptly demonstrated by ANA/Michelle’s above emails).  This indicates another fundamental characteristic of malignant narcissism: The inability to THINK, never mind think critically, originally, realistically. Their “scripts” are composed by these thespians on the fly as they demonstrate the PARANOIA so frequently evidenced by the MN.  In attempting to keep their “sorry story” straight, they conveniently suffer from selective amnesia, reactive offense (and offensiveness) towards the simplest, straight-forward, reasonable requests.

Indeed, ANA/Michelle had this to say on Farcebook after NUMEROUS writers approached her about her plagiarism: 

“When someone is successful, egos get involved, and “THE HEALER” becomes the target of DEMONIC ATTACKS. The DARK hates the LIGHT.”  


Okay. Delusional AND paranoid. And this Messianic “Michelle” DOES have plenty to BE paranoid about. In reality she has expropriated/plagiarized – read: STOLEN – legally protected material from MANY SITES. Even the dead aren’t safe from THIS self-promoting MN. The legal, ethical and moral facts of life, personal credibility and ultimately, attorney’s fees never mind being banned from ANY social networking sites are ultimately chump change, considering the $$$ to even strike a plea bargain for Fed offenses. Multiple complainants, multiple charges per indictment involving both individuals and corporations with deep pockets and even deeper distain for a small time con/thief have been brought to her attention politely, diffidently by loyal devotees on NUMEROUS OCCASSIONS.

Any Adult Child of Narcissists can predict the results: The hapless devotees were banned from her site, burned at the stake. Oh, we ACs know the drill: Slime, malign, smear, wipe-from-the-face-of-her-“site.” Simply banning enough individuals who have endeavored in good faith to assist this MN in understanding she has transgressed not only the bounds of “Christianity,” she has also exceeded both state and more importantly FEDERAL LAW in her determination to “prove” that she answers to NO ONE: Neither her professed “God” (which, as we invariably know in the “World According to a MN” is none other than…. “MEEEEE!!”). 
 
The sad fact is, many truly have believed this MN cloaked in her transparent obsequiousness and are now discarded former sycophants who have become true believers in the REALITY that those who seeks to edify their own perversity will sink to even lower lows, inevitably ensuring their own rightful self-destruction.

Once again, we rest our collective ACoN gaze on the ludicrous; the patently evil, self-serving, cloaked-in-no-clothes Malignant Narcissist, as another one, once again, attempts to “target” an ACoN for their own edification. The MN’s perverse agenda, with all the tactics/techniques which we as ACoNs are very familiar, and adroit dissectors of, given our “birth right” to such “parents” possess a kind of knowledge this particular MN masquerading as a self-anointed “Healer” will NEVER be capable of fathoming.

This “ANA” site and the alleged “Michelle” behind it demonstrates WHY Bloggers and those who read and NEED this information are given cohesive information, not choppy, pilfered, out of context “sound bites” from multiple sources. The Bloggers; so they can keep up with the wannabes with a nefarious agenda, the readers/commenters; so they know what they’re reading is coming from people of integrity that know their stuff.

Realistically, anyone can make “A” mistake, let’s face it. However, the REPEATED theft of material from other well-respected sites is NOT acceptable and speaks volumes to the integrity of the THIEF. Theft of established, excellent Blog material that remains unaddressed in ANY fashion just emboldens these assholes. And these self-anointed “Healers” probably have an “occupation”(if it’s even listed) as something like “Life Coach.” They rely on stolen material, books of au currant “quotations”and platitudes. How useful, not to mention illegal/unethical is that?
I had to grin when I looked on ANA Farcebook and saw not only a QUOTE, but one that was properly ATTRIBUTED/CITED which tells me this “Michelle” bitch DOES KNOW THE DIFFERENCE but chooses not to do right by Lisette.

Better yet, here’s the quote:

“Our character is but the stamp on our souls of free choices of good and evil we have made throughout our lives.”  John C. Geiki
I don’t know who this guy is but how damn interesting “Michelle” uses a quote that speaks directly to the exact evil – REPEATED THEFT – that speaks to HER character. 
Trying to BS an ACoN is an act of futility.  WE lived this, WE know this – WELL.  We can smell the stench of MNs IMMEDIATELY.  

Methinks the shifty little WANNABE at the controls of “After Narcissistic Abuse – There is Light, Life & Love” is trying too damn hard to establish herself (cloak herself) in everything she is NOT.  And the longer she continues this crap the more she unmasks herself.     

16 comments:

  1. Thanks for this information - I will post "beware of ANA" on my blog with a link to this site. We have to get the wout to those who are seeking help on blogs to beware the MN's who are out there trolling for supply.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Toto. Could you tell us the name of your blog? I'd like to check it out.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Toto,

    Thanks! I would also like to check-out your blog.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Geez. I quote other sources all the time to support my points, but I keep "fair use" in mind and *always* cite. Unless it's from a book, my citations always include a link. That's copyright law, and teaching about plagiarism was part of college 101. It's so simple and easy to do.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Thank you TW for this ass kicking article and for informing and warning others of this recent MN encounter. Most importantly, thank you for pointing out that THEFT is WRONG, on any level.

    I have to say, everything that played-out online with “ANA” – as described in your article – I have experienced in real life with a variety of MNs. The disordered are interpersonally exploitative and feel entitled to “take” whatever the hell they want from others. They are the original greedy guts of the world. And they NEVER ask, at best they demand. An example is MN sister pointing to an article of clothing I’m wearing and saying, “I want to borrow that.” Meaning: NOW! Take it off and give it to ME! GIMME, GIMME, GIMME is the MNs motto. Oh sure, it can be disguised as “borrowing” but once they get whatever it is they WANT in their greedy little paws, consider it stolen. I wrote about this a bit on the “Calling a Narcissist on Their Crap” post.

    And if you have the nerve to ask for your property back they ALL play the same game straight out of the MN hand book: They can’t “find” it. They play pathetic: “Why are you bothering me with this when I have bigger problems?!” They call you – the rightful owner – “petty” for wanting your belongings back. Essentially, they blame you – the injured party - for having a backbone and standing up to them and their thieving ways. They tell you to shut-up about it! For no one, but no one has the right to question the behaviour of someone so superior. Then they assign a zero value to you property, calling it worthless. And we all know MNs see everybody as nothing but dirt beneath their feet. Your stuff has zero value because you have zero value in the eyes of a MN. “What’s the big deal?” they ask. What’s the big deal about returning things that don't belong to you, MN? THAT'S the real question.

    As you described in your article: MNs are essentially three year olds playing keep away. Sinister, fucking nasty three year olds who can’t stand to relinquish an inch of control. And hoarding things that someone wants returned makes these impotent freaks feel very much in CONTROL. By controlling another person’s property they mistakenly believe they are controlling that person. This makes these pathetic, infantile jerks feel powerful. And they crave this feeling of power and control - it’s their drug of choice. I could list an inventory of all my property that has been ripped-off by MNs. In the end, I just wrote it off. A small price to pay to get these losers out of my life, as well as deny them of their drug.

    Also, an important point in your article is that MNs are PREDATORS and what is THEFT but PREDATION. And where does theft spring from? The desire to have what others possess. And where does that come from? ENVY.

    MNs live in a constant state of ENVY and this makes them PREDATORS.

    @Nyssa “It’s so simple and easy to do.”

    Yes. Attributing others is simple and easy for a NORMAL person to do. The disordered among us are NOT NORMAL, and being fair and reasonable is not in their nature. As TW pointed out, their thinking patterns are anti-logical. It comes with their disorder. They have the mentality of a three year old. Also, MNs don’t suffer the burden of embarrassment, shame, or guilt so there is nothing putting the brakes on their childish behaviour.

    Here’s the litmus test: Ask someone to DO, or STOP doing something… make a reasonable request and see how they respond. A MN will REACT as described in TW’s article. Whether it’s online or in real life these scumbags all play the same twisted game. They all fell off the same factory assembly line. There isn’t an original in the pack of thieves known as malignant narcissists.

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  6. And this is exactly one of the salient points, Nyssa. Fact is, I had no agenda with regard to this particular "Blogger" or Facebook "Site." Anymore than I "know" Lisette or any other Blogger or published author. However, I am a researcher (and a retired Fed) so I found this drivel particularly interesting and illuminating with regard to Malignant Narcissistic tactics: In effect, it's a Case Study. Further, it is not as if this Malignant "Michelle" has not been TOLD to stop doing what she/he/it is doing by ethical followers at her sites REPEATEDLY. Guess what happened to THEM? Uh huh woman, you got it.
    And it's not as if Facebook and the US Government do NOT prosecute-they DO, as do Publishers of books. However, an MN always assumes the laws (never mind morals/ethics/values) don't apply to...THEM.
    In mentioning the above Blogs, I do not wish to infer any ACoN Bloggers should feel their sites are some how "less than" worthy of mention-they are. The opportunity to follow an MN in real time in the cyber sphere, to watch the "shuckin' and jivin'" (not to mention all kinds of violations of USC AND Social Networking sites) is right up my alley, personally and professionally. I did not wish to cite other great sites in the event their material will be STOLEN (some of which already has been) or direct the "true believers" of this MN to load up their emails with spam and other BS: No one needs or deserves that aggravation.
    IMO, the reality is the best Bloggers are motivated by self-LESSNESS: Their material comes from their research, their experiences, their willingness to share without expecting any "return on investment." OTOH, none of us wish to step on the freedom of expression and more importantly, the freedom of the internet. As ACoNS, we have essentially a Ph.D and post-Doc work in this area and we KNOW the tactics and techniques when we see them. And to have them in WRITING? PRICELESS! Especially when hard copies have been made, in real time from the specific individual as associated with their sites. And better yet, their hubris alleviates prosecutorial challenges.
    In the event you are unable to access Kathy K's "Fuzzy Morality" as cited above in the Table of Contents at her site, here's another way to access that particular citation: It's a Post that is an "Update" between Sept. 10/Sept.11, 2006. Even the dead, as I mentioned are not safe from this MN.
    Allow me to close with a few other gems from Kathy's site:
    From her Post on Jan. 31, '07: "Envy, exploiting others as objects without empathy-that is Malignance. Exploiting others is predation which is Malignant...and having utter disregard for the rights, feelings and human dignity of others-that's malignant too."
    We "know" others particularly in the cyber sphere by their work: It speaks to their character. How ironic, how typically MN that this "ANA/Michelle" person (No, that's NOT her name) should include a "ready-for-prime-time" quote (platitude) on "Character"-appropriately attributed. More evidence of intentional theft-not that ignorance of the Law is any "defense." Much of what we speak to in our own ACoN experiences is not able to be prosecuted-that does NOT infer our experiences were NOT Criminal; the fact is, they were. However, the reality is so much of what happened to us as the UNCHOSEN "children" of MN Parents takes place in private (which tells us they KNEW the difference) and is morally, ethically and disgustingly consistent: We know them by the commonalities of our themes, our experiences, our Legacy.
    TW

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  7. Sure enough, I tell my suspected narcs to leave me alone, so they start showing up at my church, stalking my blog, leave me a nasty message, actually press up next to me and breathe down my neck in the communion line....I just told them, again, to leave me in peace. Let's see if they do so, or step it up. Because OMG we can't have somebody call us out on our crap.

    My suspected narcs didn't act like they should keep my stuff, but they sure held onto it for quite a long time, until we finally had to ask and then they'd have to find it....Well, there was a little guilt-tripping: Them: "But we really like that quilt. It's big enough to cover us." Me: "But my grandmother made that quilt! And I want to give it to a daughter if we ever have one." Them: "She can make another one." I finally got the quilt back. I don't recall if they had permission to take that quilt with them when they moved out. But even if they did, it was supposed to be temporary, not a gift...When we finally nagged them enough to get our sleeping bags back from them, one had been destroyed (by the kids, we were told), so they gave us one of theirs. A couple weeks ago, Hubby opened up the one they gave us; it stank (like their house) and was in terrible shape. He had to throw it out and use blankets for camping instead. Also, I had lent them a couple of books and borrowed one of theirs. I returned the book in pristine condition. Mine were returned covered in spaghetti sauce! We gave them so much and all we ever got back from them was frickin crap.

    Oh, BTW, thanks for adding me to your blogroll. I'm getting hits from it. :)

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  8. Nyssa, So you're NC with the MNs, correct? You've asked to be left in peace and low and behold....not gonna happen. In classic MN fashion, they step UP their abuse: Quite the paradox, no?! Essentially, you're being Stalked. Does that speak to "Reconciliation" or Power and Control-one of the most BASIC "tactics" in their arsenal of just plain nasty? (Rhetorical question, of course.)
    If you look at the links at this site and click on "Luke Ministries" you'll see a Post listed in the Table of Contents to the left of your screen that speaks directly to your observations/experiences. The Post is titled, "Desperate Measures-When They Sense They're Loosing Their Grip on You-5 Surprising Ways of Keeping You Attached" by Rev. Renee. I mention this in view of your observation re: your church involvement and communion.
    Both Rev. Renee's site and Anna V's "Narcissists Suck" site are particularly useful for those who have encountered MNs within the context of their Religious orientation (and IMO, even for those of us who do not subscribe to a particular-or any-Religious orientation.)
    I wasn't aware you had a Blog (or that Toto had one) but I'm pleased you do and look forward to visiting your site. The more LEGITIMATE voices from the ACoN community, the more likely others who have endured the unchosen experience of growing up with MN "Parents" will find their way to ethical, legitimate sites/Bloggers and ultimately benefit from the eons of collective knowledge and experience of other ACoNs.
    Thanks.
    TW

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  9. Yes, I caught them reading my blog one night, so I left a harshly-worded message for them to apologize or leave me alone, don't contact me, stay away from me, etc etc. (In the past, I've been very polite and passive while they've been the harsh ones, continuously harsh no matter how much I tried to apologize and be nice, so it was turnabout.) So they said they laughed at the things I wrote about them, considered me "not all there," and told me they were going to show up all the time at my church now....It's all in my blog, including the message they sent me. So far, they've shown up a few times, their defiant attitude wafting across the room to me, but they haven't been showing up all the time as they said they would. Other than their constant checking up on me on my blog, things have been quiet. But the checking itself is nervewracking.

    I'm not an ACoN, but I have had several run-ins with suspected narcissists, and I write about that. Mostly I write about my own experiences and point people to blogs like this one (with links, of course ;) ). Narcissists Suck has been very helpful, and so has Luke Ministries. I'll definitely go look up that Desperate Measures post.

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    1. This is exactly the reason I set up my blog as by invitation only - at some point, I'll go public with it,but right now I want to explore this personality disorder and figure out how to stay out of their nonsense before I do that - I live on a different continent from my Nsiblings, so the only way they can stalk me is via internet. I'e blocked all of their access to me via technology and I"m going to keep it that way for a while! Good luck with your Nstalkers!

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    2. Thanks. Sure enough, they showed up at my church today. They behaved themselves, though. But I've seen them drive past me twice already the past few days, making me wonder if they've taken to physically stalking me, or is this town just too dang small.

      The thing about locking my blog up, is only my friends/family could see it then, and I don't want to annoy them with this. There's only so much you can expect them to listen to, and they've heard it already. The blog's function was for me to get it all out without annoying them, to do all the work of venting and raging and healing that I still needed to do. I wanted to make it available for people who are also going through this, so they can find comfort and validation, same as I found reading their blogs/websites. Everybody who doesn't want to read such stories, can simply ignore it.

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  10. Sounds like what happened here: http://theoatmeal.com/blog/funnyjunk My understanding is the lawsuit has since been dropped, but this was quite the trainwreck.

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  11. I've had to deal with narcissists and OCPD people my entire life. Personality disorders are unfortunately a part of the culture in North America. Many people are in denial and refuse to acknowledge toxic and subversive behaviors, actions, attitudes, and systems. I encountered a lot of personality disorders in college and in workplaces. I've also completed a plethora of research on toxic families. It can be very draining and sometimes scary to life with a family member that is disordered.

    While in college I did some blogging to help others deal with unfairness and discrimination but most people were disinterested and in denial. After I encountered workplace mobbing, blacklisting, and blatant discrimination in Austin, Texas at UT Austin I decided to do more straight forward social activism and deeper research.

    Your blog is one of the best if not the best source of information. I wish I could post comments on all of your posts that I thought were particularly wonderful. Furthermore, please look at my Activism Of Care blogger and YouTube Channel: I provide free activist, political science, and sociology lectures and I make recommended book and documentary lists. I hope my activism blogs are helpful to you. Keep up the fantastic work.

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    1. Activism of Care,
      Thank-you for your comment. The posting was delayed as it got lost in the shuffle before I went on a break. I will definitely check-out your blog and YouTube Channel. I hope you make your way back here and leave more comments.

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