Wednesday, 6 March 2013

How To Cause Narcissistic Injury Without Really Trying


Causing “narcissistic injury” is a walk in the park; you don’t have to do a damn thing. What’s difficult is NOT causing narcissistic injury. Here's an example: protect something the narcissist feels entitled to steal from you. Well, watch the shameless narcissist fly into a malicious rage, throw a histrionic tantrum, lie, project and blame-shift and play the suffering victim after the legal department of her website host orders her to remove all infringing content from her scraper site.  

First off, I don’t care for wishy-washy psychiatric phrases like “narcissistic injury.” They are extremely misleading, and seem to suggest that the poor narcissist is “feeling” hurt or wounded and is suffering as a result. Give me a break. When you cause narcissistic injury you simply threaten the narcissist’s delusions of uniqueness and superiority and THAT pisses them off, period. All narcissistic injuries lead to rage. Therefore, “narcissistic injury” and “rage” aren’t just linked; they are one and the same. Sure, the narcissist’s reaction to a perceived threat may sometimes look like snootiness, cold detachment, apathy, mild irritation or indifference but it isn’t, it is rage.       

The title of this post is a little tongue-in-cheek because it doesn’t take any effort whatsoever to cause “narcissistic injury.” Hell, sometimes all it takes to enrage a narcissist is to breath the same air as them. The narcissist’s image is one of perfection: they view themselves as exclusive, faultless, flawless, irreproachable, magnificent bastards and if we lowly plebs ever forget it then look out, there will be hell to pay! Because with every narcissistic “injury” there is a reflexive urge toward violence. And guess who is at the receiving end of that violence? That’s right, we the people. WE are the ones that suffer “injuries” when the narcissist’s infantile little ego gets bruised.


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131 comments:

  1. Lissette, Thank you for putting the truth out there. This is knowlege that will save peoples lives. This post explained my childhood, I played my part in the script perfectly for 3 decades. I found myself having PTSD, anxiety, Passing my behaviors to my kids, exposing them to Narcs. Then thankfully i woke up. I had to laugh reading about the dumpster throwing, HA HA! Thats a story I can relate too. It really hits home remembering my parents raging and having to sit through it with plates, chairs and food flying and it going on for hours. Then the next day when I woke up dreading my day with the Narcs, having to pretend NOTHING ever happend. And that was a mild experience in the full spectrum of time in the first 18 years of my life. It never ended. My parents had me controlled and numbed to "narc injury". Each of my siblings had our role. Its is crushing to a child just exist to be a role in thier Narc Parents lives. If anyone doubts it can cause suicide and/or death, think again. I am so glad I have chose to live in reality. Even though it makes the MN go into rage and that can be harmful,it is not as dangerous as living as a second rate slave/pawn. Completly being mocked and your individuality being strangled. If you choose to live this way, and you have children it will severely effect them. One thing I never realized is that these people WILL stalk you. I hate that we can just not walk peacefully away. I hate being stalked. It is creepy as hell. MG

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  2. MG, you're welcome! I'm glad you/me/all of us woke-up and are here! I agree that the Hulk dumpster story is pretty darn funny. ANON did a hilarious job of describing her MN mother's rampage. It's good to laugh at these crazy beasts, but it sucks what we have gone through. In any event, we all have chosen to live in reality and the MNs hate that. Let them rage-on. Like you said, their rage "is not as dangerous as living as a second rate slave/pawn. Completely being mocked and your individuality being strangled." Well said! Stalking IS creepy? Is it a MN parent/family member? Stay safe.

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    1. Lissete, I went NC with my parents over a year or so and I they have been trying to keep the strings attached. After they realised I am moving on the rage surfaced and they now try to write my kids. I have read on other blogs about this behavior, I guess it is pretty common w/MN's. It is creepy how they completly disregard me like I am invisible. Luckily I just intercept the mail. Which I am sure causes more "narcissistic injury". I know that was the way I was raised. I was invisible, the show/ life was about them and them only. I have been on a long, long journey and it was just in the last few years I finally know the truth about my life. There was a lot of abuse and neglect in my family, and because I dare speak the truth and demand respect, and have the courage to keep my famiily safe I am "angry" Im sure they put in the "mental problems" too. I am greatful I survived. I am keeping on high alert. They are not going to get any more Narc supply from me. Thanks, MG

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    2. oops typo, I wrote I before they in the first sentence, correction! They and only they are trying to keep strings attached ( in a very narc way)MG

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    3. MG, I have a typo too... I put a ? behind stalking IS creepy? Meant ! Stalking IS creepy!

      Yes, the Ns discard us without a second thought when we no longer give them what they want, then they move in on the next generation. It's good you're intercepting the mail, and are on high alert keeping your family safe. That takes courage. You rock! You have earned evey last ounce of your anger. Righteous anger is a positive, motivating source. Let those MNs call it what they want. The truth is, it will keep you safe. Truth to power MG!

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    4. MG, They will also use Facebook to get to your kids. Their goal is to divide you and your children.

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    5. " They will also use Facebook to get to your kids. Their goal is to divide you and your children."
      You got this right! Back when I still had contact with my evil mother, she did everything in her power to drive a wedge in between me and my kids. I couldn't figure out for the life of my why my children had little respect for me at the time, but in hindsight I can see it as clear as day. She would say things like, "I'd love to let you , but your mother won't allow it", followed by an eye roll or two. The message that was sent to my kids: Your mother is what's standing in the way between you and what you want. I would go along with it - your mother is the problem.

      The other thing she would pull with my kids is that I would tell them no about something, and she actually would go behind my back and let them do whatever. Example: I discovered that my teen was being highly inappropriate on a social networking site. I banned her from having an account, then insisted that her internet activities be monitored. My evil bitch of a mother went behind my back and allowed my daughter to set up new accounts, then allowed her to use them unsupervised. What message did that send?

      As far as facebook goes, they will use that to get to your kids, and will use it to collect information about you. A few months back I received a message from my mother making some comment about me looking thin (wonder why???) in a particular picture that I posted on FB. I had everything set to private so I couldn't figure out how she even saw it, but after some digging I realized that she had requested some friends of mine so that's how she had access. I was so disgusted that I de-friended all of our now mutual friends, got even more disgusted and deactivated my whole account.

      I don't mean to sound negative here, but I don't think I'm really ever going to experience peace in my life until this bitch is 6 feet under.. but just my luck she will live to be 90!!!

      ANON

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    6. Anon, I don't think you sound negative. Even being no contact, they still find a way to annoy you. Everything is quiet for awhile then they re-appear.

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    7. I dont think you sound too negative either. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I can understand your frustration. I think it comes down to - they are stalking. I never realized this untill recently. Its like once they know you are aware of their narc behavior they go into stalk mode. It is not normal interaction- like- Hi , how are you, or can I help repair our relationship?- Its covert suprise attacks and snide comments, or mail or Reapearing out of the blue with a phone call, completly ignoring the fact of everything u have told them or the insults they projected on you. It is pinche loca! MG

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  3. Lisette, this information is spot-on, and explains so much, such as why someone in the NFOO always *had* to act out at any gathering. It just wasn't a get-together unless someone was exploding in rage, screaming, and knocking over restaurant tables (seriously) over imagined slights.



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    1. "It just wasn't a get-together unless someone was exploding in rage, screaming, and knocking over restaurant tables (seriously) over imagined slights."

      Ain't that the truth. Drama, drama, drama... over imagined slights. How the heck did we survive this chaos with our sanity intact?

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  4. Great post as usual, but I'm sitting here laughing my ass off at the illustration that you used to go along with the dumpster story. Slap a blonde wig on that mo fo and that's my crazy-ass mother all the way!

    You are so right about not having to try to cause a narcissistic injury - you'll inadvertently do it just by sharing common air with them (their air should be too special to be shared with us mere mortals you know). If you have a brain and an opinion, you'll injure their fragile little egos on a daily basis. And if you want to see the mother of all meltdowns, just allow a little reality to seep into their distorted fantasy world. Whooo hoo! Talk about a rage! lol

    I feel deeply for the Anonymous in this post as I was also the family whipping post. Reading her experience just reminded me of one of my own - the time where I was a suicidal teen in desperate need of help, and my mother beat me to a pulp with a belt, but mostly its buckle. I'm talking beating me until she got tired and couldn't do it anymore. 24 hours later and covered in welts I could barely walk, and I'll never forget my mother laughing at me as I limped through the kitchen to get a drink of water.

    I now realize that it wasn't about me. It wasn't about the fact that she was tired of dealing with a depressed, suicidal child. It was about her rage, which was always on the verge of boiling over anyway. I was nothing more than a punching bag, there simply to absorb her emotional and physical blows.

    I've recovered from a lot of abuse that I've endured, but this beating is something that has continued to haunt me. The bruises and welts have long since healed, but the memories of feeling worth less than the kitchen trash is something that I'll probably live with for the rest of my life.

    ANON

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    1. I am terribly sad that you suffered the madness of this monstrous hate-filled woman. You're so right that it was never about you - they never even took the time to find out who we were as human selves - because they didn't want us to have a self. Still, they didn't win - the proof of that is that we are HERE, speaking the truth of what they are and what they did. And what happened to us is not who we are. They were the trash, they don't define your worth though I understand what you say about the ongoing pain of having been dehumanised in our powerless childhoods and treated as an object with no inherent value. Perhaps that's their biggest lie of all. (In my experience they are generally incapable of telling the truth about anyone or anything - it's just endless projection with them).

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    2. ANON, as anna said, "They were the trash." There's a part of me that truly believes the worse they treated us, the more threatened they were. Maybe that is twisted... I don't know. It's not a badge of honor anyone would risk getting. But your evil ass mother was a low as they come, and she tried to reduce you to nothing and she failed... MISERABLY! She was the trash. You're the flower that grows in the soil of the trash. You triumphed over that monstrous hate-filled Hulk on every level imaginable. I hope you know that.

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    3. Ps. ANON, I slapped a blonde wig and some lipstick on that mo fo. Here's hoping you get a good laugh before you get any nightmares.

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    4. Lisette, I absolutely believe this is true. "There's a part of me that truly believes the worse they treated us, the more threatened they were." I was the first member of my family to go to college. I always loved school, probably because it was the only sane place in my life. Two plus two was always four, not four one time and eleven another time and the-square-root-of-pi the next. The American Revolution happened in 1776, not 1946 one telling and 1492 another. The abuse *really* went into high gear my senior year of high school, when colleges were contacting me. They were always screaming, "Who do you think you are? Do you think you're better than us?" Sheer projection on their part.

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    5. "Who do you think you are?!" I heard that ALL the time from wicked bitch. Said with such indignation; like I had some nerve to try and make the most of the life I'd been given. These MNs believe they own their children's lives.

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    6. I heard that ALL THE TIME TOO! WTF? Is there a fucking manual that they all bought? "Who do you think you are?" "You're selfish" and "You're ungrateful": over and over. I guess that is it: the belief that they owned our lives.

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  5. As I was reading this article Lisette, NM's historical voice was hissing at me Take that look off your face, (I am amazed that so many of our NMs actually spoke the same words, the same scripts). Then I realised that subconsciously I have been trying to maintain an expressionless face for most of my life, even around friends. No wonder people say they find me hard to read and get to know. And even when I am happy, smiling doesn't come quite naturally, it is as if my own inner voice whispers "you smile now". The only time my face is spontaneously fully reflective of what I am feeling is when I laugh. Thanks because I hadn't realised that until today.

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    1. Thank-you, Anonymous. I could relate to everything you wrote. Smiling has never come naturally for me either. I've had street folks: hobos, beggars, druggies; whatever the PC term is shout, "SMILE!!" I'm always thinking... do I look that blank? Leave me alone assholes! But like you, I have to make a conscious effort to smile and it all seems so contrived. Laughing is great, laughing is natural and spontaneous. What I heard from MN mother was, "Wipe that look off your face." I guess that might explain my blank slate.

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  6. Gun control... How about MOTHER CONTROL? That would get rid of half of all the violent crime out there. We're not wrestling with the 2nd amendment. We're wrestling with and taking aim against violent the people who raised us.

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  7. Oh hell ya! MOTHER CONTROL! I hear that! If people only knew. I'm all for organizing a rally. Anyone in?

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  8. Thank you Anna and Lisette, for your kind comments. I'm really annoyed that I keep thinking of this crap - I wasted most of my life living it; I certainly don't want to waste one more second thinking about it. Actually I don't think about it a whole lot - sometimes something will trigger the memory, then other times I look at my own kids and wonder how much of a fucking monster one would need to be in order to be that abusive.

    "There's a part of me that truly believes the worse they treated us, the more threatened they were. Maybe that is twisted... I don't know."
    I also believe this to be true. I was beautiful when I was young - blonde hair, blue eyes, and porcelain skin - looked just like a doll. As people oohed and aahed over me, it almost seemed like she was jealous, and when I got older, she hated me because I was WAY too much competition for her.

    The other problem is that I was highly intelligent; so smart that they actually stuck me in a class for mentally challenged students! lol Let me explain - I did very poorly in my classes, so they thought I was slow. The truth of the matter is that I learned so quickly that I was bored. Either way, I believe that my mother tried to beat me down that much more because I was smart. It was hard for her to do her evil deeds with a smart daughter around - she controlled me with fear, but must have known that I knew what she was doing (drugging men, faking pregnancies, passed a polygraph in a murder investigation, then bragged about it later) and could have exposed her.

    Strangely enough, I walk around with a blank look too. Laughing comes easily for me and I do it often, but otherwise I have a blank look which I didn't notice until people pointed it out to me. "Smile!! Why do you look so mean/serious all the time?" In my case, I can't remember anyone specifically telling me to wipe the look off of my face, so I don't know what it could be. Wait a minute.. I remember my evil mother saying, "Stop looking so serious all the time! You're a kid so act like one!!" So I guess I've always been this way.. Perhaps this is just the look of a woman who has had the soul sucked out of her.

    Your updated hulk photo made me laugh my ass off! Yup, that's evil bitch alright!

    ANON

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    1. I think this is true. It's like they see a spirit in us they want to annhilate because it threatens their self-image.

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  9. Wonderful article here. It's such a joy to piss off the ones you are still in contact with ( however little) just by rewriting your lines and role. THEY CAN'T HANDLE IT! Here are some of my favorite retaliation tactics:

    Watch how I don't chase you anymore. ( for contact, approval, advise...)
    Watch how I no longer loan you money. Because you're a complete pig who can't manage ANY substance: food, money whatever.

    Watch how I no longer give you baby, wedding, whatever gifts just because we're related. I'm open to re-examining this decision if you can find time in your busy, fucking self-important life to return a phone call YOU initiated or answer a Facebook question I asked etc. etc. etc. No, strike that. Neither you or your N kids I've never even MET get any more gifts ever. So save the postage on that announcement card. When you're ready to acknowledge my existence beyond the needing me for gifts thing, message me.

    Watch how I don't call you up to see if you're okay after that recent surgery, illness, problem with your child, husband cheating on you, you had. You know, that checking up on you thing I always did for you out of the goodness of my heart that it never even occurred to you to EVER do for me?

    Watch how I leave big, open , empty blocks of silence after you're poured out your troubles to me and are hoping I'll fill those gaps with sound, nurturing advise like I used to do ad nauseum whenever you needed it, once again that you never did for me. Unless of course you needed something. In those moments you faked being caring because there was a tangible payoff for you. But this one I actually have a smidgeon of forgiveness for. Since I now know that you are basically empty inside I 'get" that tactic. What you could have given me was just useless bullshit anyway.

    Okay, I could go on and on here, but you get the idea.

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    1. Anon, I can sooo relate to what you wrote.... It's always a one way relationship with these people.

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  10. These evil MN mothers want to beat the YOU out of you. And they won't stop trying until there's nothing left of you. Then these monsters become enraged because we aren't all smiles around them?! They beat the innocence out of us before we could even have a childhood. The hypocrisy is endless.

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  11. I read all the commentary here and think: how did we do it? how did we survive? They had all the power and they were demonic; we had no power and they were relentless in their evil; we were soul captives and experienced this abuse day in day out for years and years. Yet we did survive, without help, without support, without any of the basic nurture that infants and children need. What does that say about us? What does it mean? I know for myself there was always a well-hidden observer-witness in me, who saw what they did, who knew it was evil, and I took every scrap of solace where I could find it: encounters with cats and other animals I could share moments of casual affection with; nature generally; books. The search for goodness began so early and has never ended. There is only one word in all the words here that I have a problem with: MOTHER. Eh? Hello? When did we have mothers? These women weren't mothers, they were monsters. I envy women who did have mothers and did have mothering, benignly I hope, and some of them gave me some really important mothering in my lost twenties when I was still a confused and bruised waif-adult who was drifting unanchored without clarity on my past experience and my hands were still shaking when anyone tried to get close to me. Yes Lisette their hypocrisy is endless. For ever bruise they inflicted on us, physically, emotionally, psychologically and spiritually, it was always "You're so clumsy/hopeless" - they had victim-blaming honed to the sharpest art. So the miracle of us being here, of having found our way here, of Lisette having created this meeting place, of our validation of reality and naming of what they are, it strenghtens me to keep restoring to myself the dignity, respect, joy and self-worth that they wilfully blinded us to with their relentless mind-fucking. (No lesser word will do, sorry if it's offensive). I congratulate all of us on the extraordinary achievement of survival; perhaps not many people could do that. I don't have a shred of human sympathy for them and if that makes me a terrible person, I don't care. My stomach turns when I hear apologists say "They did the best they could do". Like bloody hell they did. More mindfucking crap! (Laugh here).

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    1. How did we survive? That's a very good question. We all must have had some inner core of strength, all the more precious because we had it *despite* our upbringing, not *because* of it. Years ago, a rarely-seen relative came to visit and offered some treat, then backed out at the last minute. When I shrugged and said, "I'll survive", her response was, "You're a survivor. {NSis} isn't--you have to take care of her." I felt like saying, Gee, ever consider I was a survivor because nobody bothers to take care of me?!?

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    2. This is a question us Acons eventually ask ourselves. How did we survive? I have to think really hard about my survival tactics. They must have began at birth, and then some spark of life must have carried me through. My existence was one of running and hiding, desiphering codes of abusive behavior, watching my siblings being abused and neglected. Being invisible, and most of all having no feelings. I was almost destroyed and turned into a monster myself. Somewhere in my first 18 years I made a concious decision to respect life and good. I broke away and ran for my life. I also like Anna wrote, was a lost wandering waif-adult for a long time- I think because I always tried to keep in perspective the truth, and that on this earth there is many people suffering in hardship and poverty and I wanted to survive, I was DETERMINED not to let my parents destroy me , I somehow survived. I didnt want to believe what my parents tried to brainwash into me- that no- one cared. I think I was also trying to hang in there so my siblings would see there was HOPE. I was fortunate that in life I met some nice people. Real friends. I was lucky. I still count my blessings everyday, but I know now why I have to fight:) MG

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    3. Anna, I share a lot of your experiences. I isolated myself as much as possible, spending time with nature and animals as much as I could. I lost myself in art and books; especially the books, even reading the dictionary and encyclopedia when I ran out of normal books to read. I've come to realize that I dissociated a lot, and that also may be a big part of what saved me.

      Like MG above, I was a very broken young adult, wanting to do the right thing, but shuddering to think how dysfunctional I really was back then - I really had some twisted ways of thinking! Getting to a place of anger, "That bitch is not going to destroy me. I will be everything that she is not!" pushed me through it. By anyone's standards, I am a success story. I have it all - career, family, house with the white picket fence, but inside I'm still struggling. After going NC 1 1/2 years ago, I'm still trying to figure out what I'm all about. Abuse aside, who am I? Sadly, the answers have not come to me yet.

      I won't find out by going to a therapist, I can almost guarantee you of that. When I heard, "But she did the best she could do" from my very own therapist, followed by, "I wonder what horrible things she had to endure to make her this way" after I hit the roof and responded to the first comment with, "The fuck she did! The level of abuse that I suffered at the hands of this monster could hardly be considered anyone's best!!" I was done. Hopefully the answers will come in time.

      ANON

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    4. Anna, your post really got me thinking. Like you, I believe I have always had the observer-witness in me. I always believed THEY were wrong, wrong, wrong despite the world being an unsupportive one and having no validation of my beliefs. I guess it was about knowing the difference between right and wrong, something I felt everyone should know. From my earliest memories, I knew MN "mother" was unsafe.

      I found a lot of solace in my imagination. I didn't read so much, as I created stories, and worlds and realities that I could escape to. In our basement we had this gigantic chalkboard on the wall and a large desk in front of it, and one lonely little school desk. I would play for hours teaching my imaginary students; calling them by name; scoring tests that I wrote and took. Yes, I lived in imaginary worlds. Escaping into my imagination got me in a lot of trouble as a young adult as I was prone to fantasizing that people were nicer, kinder, better than they actually were. I suppose it was a form of magical thinking... or wishful thinking.

      My first memory of a real bond and true unconditional love and affection was with a dog. An old lady who lived in the neighbourhood would get monthly visits from her son and he would bring his dog, and the dog and I some how found each other. Every time this man visited his mother, his dog would wander off to our house. I also got a lot of love from my best friend's dog. Because of those experiences, to this day, my favourite dogs are corgis and dachshunds.

      From what I read in comments, and what I know of ACONs we are sensitive souls. And I don't believe this is a result of the abuse, I believe the abuse was inflicted on us BECAUSE of our sensitivity. We put those despicable MNs to shame with our goodness, and they needed to try and beat it out of us to feel better about their wretched selves.

      I have also gotten the "You're so strong" BS. Well guess what? I had no choice but to be strong.

      Anna, I too have a problem with the word "Mother." I have avoided through most of the blog putting the possessive pronoun before that word as I don't want her to be "my" anything. But for the sake of clarity I sometime revert to using the pronoun. It seriously makes me cringe though. I think I should do what others have done and just assign a moniker to her. "Psychobitch" is taken, as is "evilbitch." I was thinking of "The Maliganator" but that might be too wordy.

      Thank you all for these thought provoking comments.

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    5. "From what I read in comments, and what I know of ACONs we are sensitive souls. And I don't believe this is a result of the abuse, I believe the abuse was inflicted on us BECAUSE of our sensitivity."
      Here's an interesting thought. I always thought that the abuse made me this way.

      "I have also gotten the "You're so strong" BS. Well guess what? I had no choice but to be strong."
      If I had a dollar for every time I heard this one! Seriously, for me it came down to be strong or die, so there was no choice over here. I suspect the same for the rest of our fellow ACONS.

      "Anna, I too have a problem with the word "Mother." I have avoided through most of the blog putting the possessive pronoun before that word as I don't want her to be "my" anything. But for the sake of clarity I sometime revert to using the pronoun. It seriously makes me cringe though. I think I should do what others have done and just assign a moniker to her. "Psychobitch" is taken, as is "evilbitch." I was thinking of "The Maliganator" but that might be too wordy. "
      The only reason I ever use the term "my mother" is for the sake of clarity - Like both of you, I have a problem with this. Even when I was in contact with the evil bitch, I didn't address her as mother; I didn't call her anything. I think if I would have tried, that word would have gotten stuck in my throat.
      We have to come up with a good name for for you to use! We're a creative bunch over here so we could probably help you come up with a good one. I'll start... wickedbitch, vilebitch, the beast or beastlybitch, Miss Vitriol?... Anyone else? LOL

      ANON

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    6. I believe it's more rewarding for abusers to harm those who are more sensitive and will be more deeply wounded by the abuse. Say for example; a vicious remark, shaming or humiliation. Growing up with a MN sibling, if and when she did get a taste of that type of abuse, she wasn't affected. That stuff didn't work on her; in her mind she was always above everyone, including N parents. She has always been a bully so it did not matter to her if she had no friends and kids at school were put off by her, in her mind there was something wrong with them. She controlled N parents by temper tantrum and nastiness. To this day N dad is still afraid of her. Also she was the clone of wicked bitch so wicked bitch protected her evil ass. It's difficult for Ns, even adult Ns, to psychologically/emotionally/spiritually harm someone who is more depraved than them. Even if they are a kid. MN sister worked the twisted family system like a Pro. She's still working over both parents.

      For MN "Mother", I think "Wicked Bitch" is it, or wickedbitch. Anyway, I like it because she's got the Wicked Witch of the West vibe going on. And every time I picture her and MN sister, I envision them as witches stirring their couldron of bubbling vile green goo. Yea, that works. Thanks ANON.

      Ps. I discovered there is a very vicious dog called the "Maligator" it borders on rabid, and is more dangerous than a pit-bull. The photos of those things are scary. So I was considering the "Maligator" but it needs too much splaining.

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    7. "It's difficult for Ns, even adult Ns, to psychologically/emotionally/spiritually harm someone who is more depraved than them. Even if they are a kid."
      Never thought about this, but it makes perfect sense. It also sounds even more disgusting that they would pick on an already sensitive child just for the sake of getting a reaction to feed off of. The more this is all picked apart, the more evil they seem - they definitely shouldn't qualify as human.

      "For MN "Mother", I think "Wicked Bitch" is it, or wickedbitch. Anyway, I like it because she's got the Wicked Witch of the West vibe going on. And every time I picture her and MN sister, I envision them as witches stirring their couldron of bubbling vile green goo."
      Glad you settled on something. "Maligator" is awesome - certainly original. There's an ACoN blog floating around that has a cast of characters, so maybe you could name all of yours that way? Maligator - my evil bitch of a sister. Wicked Bitch of the West - my couldron stirring mother. N father isn't horrible like the other two, so maybe he could keep N father as a name... The best part is that I could totally see you doing this then giving each one a kick-ass avatar. :)

      Oh gosh - how I amuse myself sometimes. lol

      ANON

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    8. I have issues with the name mother and father also. They are not even honorable enough to be called "mother(mom)" and "father(dad)." Guess I need to think of something that suits them.

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    9. ANON, you amuse me too. And thanks for the KARAZY cast of characters idea. I think I will make MN sister a flying maligator. You said it re: those MNMs picking on the more sensitive child for a better feeding. It's all about feeding off our pain, and I guess the more pain they cause the more intense the feeding and the bigger the high. One has to wonder if it's actually possible to starve them to death; if it's possible that their health would deteriorate from lack of supply. I'm convinced their mental health goes with no supply, but I wonder if their physical health is also effected.

      The name mother and father is bothersome. I avoid talking about MNM at all costs, but have referred to her by her name in front of N father, and he snapped, "Why do you call your mother Betty?" (not her real name). I said, because that's her name. I also called her a cunt in front of him, so I think he should just accept that "Betty" is as good as it gets.

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    10. "One has to wonder if it's actually possible to starve them to death; if it's possible that their health would deteriorate from lack of supply. I'm convinced their mental health goes with no supply, but I wonder if their physical health is also effected."
      Interesting thought. I do believe that their mental health would deteriorate with no supply, and that would most definitely affect their physical health... I can't speak for every other ACoN here, so I'll just speak for myself when I say that at the height of my abuse at the hands of evilbitch, my physical heath went straight to hell. I was physically ill all of the time with stomachaches, headaches, chronic back pain, plus I had no immune system so I caught every cold and flu that came around. Even now, when my PTSD symptoms spiral out of control, my physical health suffers tremendously... Lack of supply would have to take its toll on them physically.

      Although I'd love to trap one of these monsters and study It like a lab rat, it won't happen because they won't allow themselves to go without supply- they need it like we need air, so if their main supply is cut off, they'll just seek it somewhere else. And I think we all know how good they are at sniffing out victims, so they'll always have some form of supply... unless they were isolated somehow, like in a prison? Maybe elderly and can't get around? I'm not sure.

      ""Why do you call your mother Betty?" (not her real name). I said, because that's her name. I also called her a cunt in front of him, so I think he should just accept that "Betty" is as good as it gets."
      LMAO!! Yeah, I think he better learn to like "Betty."

      ANON

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    11. Here's hoping someday, somehow evilbitch gets hers. I don't believe in heaven but I gotta believe there's a hell.

      Delete
    12. I want to share something about my poisoned childhood. I am re writing this, I tried to post it last night and I think I wrote the code in wrong, because I got an error. It's so awful I almost couldn't type it again. Anyway, I also cannot refer to HER as "mother" "mom". I have a gag reflex for that. Life was so diabolical for me as a kid, like many escapees I used imagination. I loved my Barbie dolls, but my favorite game was pretending to be in a forrest and lost, and I had to survive in the wilderness. Looking back I have to wonder if my brain was in survival mode and that is why the game was as it was. On with a MNM story. When I was 12, almost 13, MNM decided to "clean" my room. She found my diary (which she bought for me as a "gift" about a month earlier). My diary was hidden in my closet. But, as she was "cleaning" my diary "just happened to open" to a place in which I had written some spicy curiosities about the opposite sex. MNM proceeded to take my diary downstairs and showed it to the following people: her boyfriend, two of my MN brothers, and her boyfriend's son. All of whom were adult men. She screamed and raged and demanded to know why any of them thought I would write such "perverted" and "nasty" things. She made one hell of a scene! I was so mortified I couldn't even cry. I felt as if I had been raped. I swear to God, I was never the same person after this incident.I never got my diary back, but I later discovered the pages she was flipping out about torn from my diary and she had them hidden in her armoire drawer. I guess as a "keepsake" from that special day. I realize now, it was a set up. She bought me the diary fully intending to violate me. She was wildly jealous that her boyfriend or another male (and I was curious and interested in males) might deliver me attention, and she almost "accused" them of such. She succeeded in humiliating me in a way that words defy. All intentional. And she- the real pervert- savored it so much she had to keep those pages. When I found them, by the way, I destroyed them.

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    13. The Accountant2 April 2013 at 23:19

      The idea of creating monikers/casts of characters for "our" Ns seems both funny and healthy. After thinking a little about it, here is my try:

      Queen Bitch (MN mother) - her N fantasy is that of being a "loved" and "respected" matriarch, a head of the family and clan whom everyone looks up to. When her intended subjects don't comply, she either rages, insults, spits poisonous comments, or gives the silent treatment, depending on probably the sunspots on that day.

      Dr. Fraud (MN brother) - a crackpot wannabe intellectual/spiritual guru, amateur psychologist and social scientist, and a manipulating money-sucker. All that spiced with intermittent angry outbursts.

      Vaporman (N father) - seems not to have a mind of his own, it being entirely replaced by Queen Bitch's ideas and opinions. Oblivious to the fact that people are not objects (e.g. he enrolled me in driving school without asking me first). Never meddled in his fatherhood. A wimp, he serves as Queen Bitch's cowardly sidekick. In spite of all this or just because of it, he is a frequent target of Queen Bitch's verbal abuse. Yet, their marriage is rock-solid.

      Quite comical characters once you see through them. Maybe that's a key to healing - to see them as the jokes that they are.

      And here is one I had already thought of some time ago. Possibly on the N spectrum, and in my present judgment best avoided. I cut him off because Dr. Fraud frequents him, and because I felt bad with Uncle "Bad Advice" too often:

      Bad Advice - Queen Bitch's brother. He is all about image through facades like material success, social standing, and family-and-friends connections that feel like playacting. He also seems unable to fathom people being different from him (e.g. he dismissed the existence of depression, because hey, he would do X before it could happen to him). A shady businessman type, who once actually boasted to me of his ability to stun and confuse business partners into getting an advantage over them. Named after his penchant for giving me advice on this or that, advice that is invariably inapplicable to me, confusing, ignorant, harmful, or useless. On the surface generally cordial and polite, but every once in a while a burst of anger will erupt, which may be a telltale red flag.

      As I said, Dr. Fraud is a frequent and welcome guest in Bad Advice's house, a dear member of the family. At the same time, shortly before I went NC with all of them, Dr. Fraud took to slandering Bad Advice's wife and children to me, with no witnesses present. The slime!

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    14. TA, you rock! Methinks you've got a graphic novel on your hands. Dr. Fraud, Vaporman and Bad Advice freak me out even more than Queen Bitch... especially Dr. Fraud - it's that wannabe intellectual/guru/money gubbing stuff that's scary. Comical indeed, as in comic book characters! But that's how they really are; outlandish parodies, and you nalied it! Dang! It feels great to see the PD mocked. It IS funny and healthy to get a good laugh at their expense - thanks! You've inspired me to dream-up a cast of my own.

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    15. Thank you so much for this blog. I'm always learning new things here, and it's always very comforting to know I'm not alone.

      I am a scapegoat daughter of an NPD ignoring mother. I'm 51 years old and have just recently felt recovered enough from my childhood (and beyond) ordeal. I'm beginning to feel free, like she has absolutely no more power over me. I absolutely quit looking for love and approval from her. I realized it was never, ever there. It was a really, really long, painful recovery with lots of sobbing.

      After leaving home at 18, I became an alcoholic for 6 intense years. Now, I think it was to self-medicate for the PTSD and anxiety. I got in treatment and AA meetings, and I am now sober for 26 years. I only found out about NPD about two years ago, and it was a lifesaver. I read everything I could get my hands on, and found good books to help me heal.

      I now have low contact with my mother, because It's easier for me to keep up a robot facade once in a great while, than to worry and wonder about what will she do in the future. This way I can keep tabs on her, and know what she is up to. Besides, she's 84 now, and can't live forever. I will be very relieved when she dies. My father was enabling, and I felt nothing when he died. I can always change my mind and go no contact at any time.

      I have one younger brother who was the golden child, who turned ND himself in his late teen years. I have nothing to do with him, except at weddings and funerals when I am a polite smiling robot.

      I just wanted to add to the conversation about what to call your NPD mother. I've always called mine wire monkey or wire mother, (Google "wire monkey - Harry Harlow" if you aren't familiar with his experiments. They are uncannily similar to our upbringings.)

      As far as "how did we do it?" I think we were targeted as scapegoats because we were (are) sensitive, and gave them a good reaction. I think because we are sensitive, we tuned toward "a higher power" if you will, for comfort. For me it was nature. When I was in AA and needed to identify a higher power, that childhood image of nature came to me, and I used that as my spirituality. I never could quite believe in a religious God.

      Thanks for this opportunity to write. It feels so good to share this with all of you. I already feel validated, just knowing you all will understand reading this, and really believe me!


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    16. Cynthia, thank you for commenting. I just googled "wire monkey" and I recall seeing a documentary on those experiments, and the poor little monkey clinging to a makeshift version of his mommy ( a wire mold, wrapped in cloth) for love. Honestly, I think I would have preferred a wire mommy over my real MN mom. I don't recall ever feeling safe enough to go to my real MN mom for a hug or comforting. Just goes to show how deprived many of us were in all aspects of love and nurturing.

      I think it's wise you are keeping tabs on your NPD mother. You never know what they are capable of, even at 84 years old.

      It's great to hear you've regained your power. Coming to terms with what these Ns are all about is very liberating.

      Truth to power!

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    17. Thank you for the reply and support, Lisette. My love and support go out to you as well.

      There are actually two wire monkeys in the cage with the baby monkey -- a bare wire mold with a baby bottle attached, and a cloth covered one with no food. The baby clung to the cloth mother all the time, and only went to the bare wire one to eat quickly. I'm suggesting I had the bare wire mother, only I agree, Lisette. The bare wire would have been more comforting than my own NPD mother. I guess I would add electricity which would shock me at totally random times -- when I least suspected it. for totally unpredictable and various lengths of time.

      Wow, I spend so much time creating these stories. LOL. Feels so good to connect with you, Lisette, and all that read or comment on this blog.

      Truth to power! and Power to Truth! Huzzah!

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    18. Now I remember... thanks for jogging my memory. The hard, wire monkey without the cloth was definitely my MN mother. Just got my basic needs met from her (i.e. food) before her cold metal gave me an electric shock and I had to get the hell away. Unfortunately, I had no soft, cloth covered monkey mom to cling to. The wire monkey experiments are so relevant to what we as ACONs experienced (thanks for the analogy). In the same documentary was the story of "Little Albert." A mother volunteered her infant son for fright/terror experiments. What a sick bitch. Bet she was a MN. I've been searching for a link to that doc because it was on the human brain and psychopathy.

      Power to Truth!! Oh yeah!

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  12. Excellent article thank you so much. I was told my entire life by my MN mother that I was a sensitive bitch. I always had an "attitude". I was always compared to my biological father and grandmother, whom she hates and didn't allow me to see. Your just like "them", like it was a bad thing. It's taken me years to love being like "them". My GC MN sister always told me I was negative and that I had to have some sort of mental problem. Which eventually my MN mother backed up my GC MN sisters statements. They claimed they have never done anything to me to make me so horrible. According to my MN mother I have been a problem since the day I was born. I have been told I was a bad baby, a selfish and rude child, and a troubled teenager. I decided to go NC with my family last fathers day after my mother told me that I needed to call my dad, her husband, and wish him happy fathers day or else. I told her to go fuck herself and haven't looked back. Her reply to was "Your just like HIM and I tried to love that out of you! But I guess that didn't work!" That is the moment I realized I will never be good enough, I will always be the scape goat, she will always talk ill of me even around my children, I will never be in my sisters place, and I wanted OUT! What I don't get is that everyone that has ever been in contact with my MN mother and my GC MN sister think they are just the sweetest, most kind people in the world. "Oh, your mother is so nice" "Your sister is so much fun she is such a great person" ect, ect. But, I get labeled a hard person to deal with, because I'm honest.
    Amie

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    1. Amie, I relate very much to what you have written in your post. Wow. The insanity, the sheer insanity!

      "Your just like HIM and I tried to love that out of you!"

      That MN statement is so creepy and so telling. I suppose these MNs tried to "love" everything out of us including our SELF. And what's the MN's idea of love? CONTROL. These freaks seriously equate control with love. If they can control you and you are their obedient whipping post then that must mean you love them. And how do they get us to "love" them? By beating it out of us.

      "What I don't get is that everyone that has ever been in contact with my MN mother and my GC MN sister think they are just the sweetest, most kind people in the world. "Oh, your mother is so nice" "Your sister is so much fun she is such a great person" ect, ect. But, I get labeled a hard person to deal with, because I'm honest."

      The life of a MN is all about ongoing deception and camouflage. They work 24/7 at being the wolf in sheep's clothing. If they're not "pulling the wool over everyone" then your experiences, your reality is going to be credible and believable to others. It truly is nauseating to see these MNs in action. Talk about pandering, smarmy, suck-ups! Total frauds. I've always hated brown nosing frauds because I grew-up in a house filled with these phonies.

      It's good to hear you are NC with these creeps! A warm welcome to the club.


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    2. I have read pretty much every entry of Lisette's blog and so glad she is back!! I wished I had found all this information about 20 years ago. I really feel for all ACON's, although I am on the opposite end of your life spectrum. As a twenty something female I had a wonderful life. A great family good friends and an aspiring future. I had absolutely no complaints. And then a college friend introduced me to a man that would a year later become my husband. Twenty one years fast forward, I know what it is to live in a hell on earth. Never in my life have I come across such a broken down effed up lying, manipulating empty shell of a person than the man I married. I dont care what anyone says, I believe from my 20 year experience that ALL THESE N'S HAVE A CHOICE. no one or nothing I believe forces them to be the way they are. IT IS A CHOICE. They do the shit they do because they can get away with it, plain and simple. My husband is the youngest of 5 kids and I believe has the most N tendencies of any of his siblings. I dont believe he cannot overcome the abuse he suffered from his FOO. I believe he CHOSE to SUCCUMB to it, instead of overcoming it and that is why he lives in his own hell, constantly trying to force those closest to him to dance his own dance.

      Also for those who may wonder how I got into my predicament, when I met him he was one of the nicest people I had ever met. I didnt even believe he had a temper, I had never seen him angry or even disgrutled in my presence. I did think he was too introvrerted at times but not enough to alarm me. I never met his family until after we were engaged as we courted in the state I resided in, which was not his. I found out the truth about him the very first argument we had as a married couple. He told me he was in charge and anytime I didnt like what he said I could hit the fucking road. I was living in another state by that time and pregnant with our first child. It has been a mind altering experience to say the least! I am much better now and stronger, and am pretty much indifferent to him on a daily basis. I refuse to be a part of his drama or be manipulated by his bs, and his family, who resides in a differnet state from us has nothing to do with him unless he is the one making the overture.

      Anyway, thank you Lisette for sharing your hell and your blog. Your info is invaluable to those of us who stumbled into the Narc trap!! Thanks also for letting me share my two cents!
      MMG

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    3. MMG, you're welcome. I think a lot of ACONs wonder how someone from a normal family could end up with a narcissist. You explained it well. Some of them are capable of wearing the mask for a long time, but as soon as they have their target hooked via marriage or some kind of dependency then the mask comes off. It seems they can't wait one more second to pull it off. It must have been mind-boggling and scary to discover you were married to Dr. Jekyll. I also agree it's about CHOICE. They know what they do is wrong, but do it anyway because it feels good. And they silence their victims, hide their crimes and cover their tracks like nothing else; proving once again they know what they are doing is wrong. I am glad you were able to escape the narc trap!

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  13. Is it true that you can make a malignant narcissist go away forever if you tell them that you know
    who they are and that you are mad as hell? If so, please tell details on how exactly to go about this.
    Would love to have my malignant narcissist mother-in-law completely out of our lives.



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    1. No one can make a MN go away. They'll NEVER go away. You want her out of your life then go no contact. Some are stalkers so disappear without a trace. It's up to YOU to to go away.

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    3. The cat came back the very next day... the cat just couldn't stay away. Trick is not to let the Cat/MN know where to come back to. No contact means none. Nada communication.

      I have had NC to LC off and on with N father for years, but because MN sister keeps very close tabs on him and has him under her control, I'm just not safe in a relationship with him. Even though I have seen her once in 22 years and the bitch never leaves the house, she is still very dangerous to me. My point is, when you blow-off a MN(s) you also have to go NC with everyone in their inner sanctum... and anyone who they would contact to get to you. It really means disappearing without a trace. It's like the witness protection progam. That's how dangerous these degenerate are.

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    4. What sucks is that it is easy to find people on the internet and through county records. There is no privacy these days.

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  14. Okay, freely admit this is cruel and unusual punishment, but I have a proposition. Malignant
    Narcissists seem to go through life taking sadistic pleasure from verbally hurting and abusing
    others. So... have a proposition that would force MNs to stop this type of behavior for good.

    Here is is-- description taken from Wikipedia.
    (Disclaimer: the historical use for this is incredibly cruel and it is a form of unfair torture used
    primarily against women. I am absolutely against this device in terms of its historical use.
    BUT, also thinking this device would actually cure a MN of a sharp tongue if the
    MN were made to wear such a thing. This might be useful for the most damaging MNs--
    the MNs who take pleasure in verbally abusing their victims to the extent that it kills the soul
    and inner joy of the victims. This would be a way to 'cure' the MN and save other countless
    would-be victims from the trauma inflicted by the MN.)

    Here it is:
    "A scold's bridle, sometimes called "the branks", as well as "brank's bridle" was a punishment device used primarily on women, as a form of torture and public humiliation.[1] It was an iron muzzle in an iron framework that enclosed the head. The bridle-bit (or curb-plate) was about 2 inches long and 1 inch broad, projected into the mouth and pressed down on top of the tongue. [2]The "curb-plate" was frequently studded with spikes, so that if the tongue moved, it inflicted pain and made speaking impossible. [3] Wives who were seen as witches, shrews and scolds, were forced to wear a brank's bridle, which was locked on the head of the woman. The bridle sometimes had a ring and chain attached to it so her husband could parade her around town and the town's people could scold her and treat her with contempt..."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scold's_bridle

    Still, in reality, this is NOT something I would recommend doing. It is just more of a 'fantasy'
    about how to get a MN to be quiet.

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    1. Torturing, humiliating and silencing the MN? That's not unlike what they do to us. I'm all for "A Scolds Bridle." I say we go medieval on their asses. And I'm all for revenge fantasies. Ever see the film 'Saw'? Well, I've cooked-up a good MN revenge fantasy based on that movie.

      Perhaps a MN revenge fantasy blog post is in order?

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    3. PS-
      The first time I read about the scold's bridle, the first thing that came to mind was that
      this device was developed for and because of malignant narcissists. In the middle ages
      they didn't have the clinical term for narcissism or modern day psycho-babble. But, they
      sure as heck encountered these people and likely developed a device that would dish out
      exactly what NMs dished out to others. Hence, as you said, torturing, humiliating, and
      silencing... In a way the medieval times had that right-- you give back to someone the
      exact harm that they inflicted on others.

      Here's another interesting quote about the device:
      "The Scold's Bridal was also known as the Brank and it was specifically used as a torture for women to inflict humiliation and discomfort as opposed to pain. A scold was a term given to a gossip, shrew or bad tempered woman during the Medieval times. A scold was defined as: "A troublesome and angry woman who by brawling and wrangling amongst her neighbours breaks the public peace, increases discord and becomes a public nuisance to the neighbourhood."
      http://www.medieval-life-and-times.info/medieval-torture-and-punishment/scolds-bridal.htm

      Yup, that definition at the end of the paragraph certainly sounds like a MN.

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    4. Do they sell them at Home Depot?! I've got to get me some. Seriously, it sounds like the perfect "Shut the fuck up you evil ass MN!" device. There is something to be said for the way folks took care of business back in the Medieval times. Now everything is WAY too PC. These monsters are labelled personality disordered because some kind of wounding took place in childhood or some such other nonsense. Excuses, excuses for the existence of evil. Yeah, and it only takes ONE, just ONE malignant narcissist to cut a swath of destruction in the lives of many. You know the old espression, "It Take A Village."? Well, it takes "A" MN to destroy a village. They had it right back in the olden times.

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    5. "Wipe that look off of your face before I wipe it off for you." That's what I got. funny how so many of us consistently received a variation on that when growing up.
      Anyway, off the subject but i have gone NC with the majority of my family. They have not stalked me but spread a horrible lie about me that people i cared about chose to believe[ i mentioned specifics in a different post]

      Well, my ex brother in law called my husband yesterday. He was married to my sister for about 12 years during which time she was terribly abusive to he and his kids[ for years he believed my sister that his kids were lying about being abused] Carl finally escaped about 8 years ago. My husband and I kept in touch with him, making sure that my FOO did not know. I did not want to hurt her feelings and Carl didn't want my sister to kmow because he was straight out terrified of her.

      carl re-married an awesome woman about 4 or 5 years ago.[which somehow insanely "proved to my family that Carl was a pedophile. BTW, the woman was my sisters age]

      Anyway, yesterday Carl called my husband talking about how happy he was. Then he said that he was no longer afraid of Kim and would we please make sure that Kim finds out how wwell he is doing.[his revenge] He says if we were to do this it would give him the closure to finally put his years of hell with my sister behind him..

      I'm really not sure what, if anything I should do. I really want to help Carl[and yeah, and i'm not a bitch, but I cannot help but smile at the thought of her knowing that Carl is hppy and that I know Carl is happy.

      anyway, advice would be appreciated.

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  15. Hi Anon,

    If I were you I'd tell Carl you're happy for him but that you're not going to triangulate. We'll see what others have to say but that's my advice.

    I hate when people tell me to smile. I reply with, "No. This isn't Fantasy Island." ;)

    That bridle torture device is frightening. That's the stuff of nightmares. From what I've learned of the world, it was probably the victims of abuse who ended up wearing such a thing. - Jean Jeanie

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  16. "From what I've learned of the world, it was probably the victims of abuse who ended up wearing such a thing." - Jean Jeanie

    So true. It would be naive of us to believe those who really DESERVED the scold's bridal were the ones wearing it. It probably was the victims of abuse who spoke-out and faught back that got stuck wearing the contraption... that or they got tossed in an asylum. Asylums were also filled with victims of abuse. MNs are power hungry creatures, and they've held the power down through the ages. A MN probably invented the device for one of their victims.

    It is the stuff of nightmares, and reminds of a recurring nightmare I've had since a teen. I am in trouble and need to scream for help, but I can't because my lips are sewn shut and my jaw is wired shut. So all I can do is grunt and groan, and make these awful guttural sounds. Some times I even awake in a sweat mid-groan. It's pretty scary. But it's not difficult to interpret that nightmare. MNFOO have silenced me all my life so in some ways I have always been wearing the Scold's Bridal.

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  17. Anon @ 11:07? I'm with the Anon @ 14:16, Jean Jeanie. It's up to your ex BIL to find "Closure" and that comes IMO from within yourself. As an AC, the *last* place or person I would look to for "Closure" would be MNPsychobitch (or Nsis.) NC WAS my "Closure" and screamingly silent statement of fact. Being ignored is the worst possible fate for those who envision themselves the "Center of the Universe." Moving on with your life in positive ways sans them just makes the point that much clearer.
    I guess it depends on what one actually means by "Closure" but I can't see any positive outcome by involving yourself in a triangulating situation, yk? If your sis is an MN, you can't hurt her feelings, but you will provoke a rage and she's a Predator: They do go back to a previous "Kill" for more sustenance/Supply. Likely, she's well aware he's happily re-married and *that* is the best kinda Closure I can think of for an MN. If after 8 yrs. Carl is still looking "outside" for "Closure," I have to wonder if he really understands MNs. Mine continued to stalk me right up to her physical death and if I believed or acted as if "Closure" would only be found through *anything* involving Psychobitch-including her death-I would have waited a loooonnnggg 18 yrs!
    TW

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  18. "Do they sell them at Home Depot?! I've got to get me some. Seriously, it sounds like the perfect "Shut the fuck up you evil ass MN!" device. There is something to be said for the way folks took care of business back in the Medieval times."
    I choked on my tea when I got to this part... ACoN humor at it's best!! LMAO!!!

    "These evil MN mothers want to beat the YOU out of you. And they won't stop trying until there's nothing left of you. Then these monsters become enraged because we aren't all smiles around them?! They beat the innocence out of us before we could even have a childhood. The hypocrisy is endless."
    Not only am I going to beat the hell out of you in every way possible, I'm going to tell you how your face should look when I'm done???? They suck the life out of us, then want us to look happy about it??? It's really crazy when you think about it this way, isn't it?

    ANON

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    1. Gives new meaning to the MN phrase, "Wipe that look off your face or I'll wipe it off for you!"

      Effed-up beyond imagination.

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  21. The only "authority" I've ever come across that has any hope of getting through to these people is Law Enforcement. Ask your DH this: If someone was using your SSN to get info on you (aka, Identity Theft) what would you do? If someone was sending you aerial pix of your home from 1,000 mi. away (aka, a pattern of Stalking) what would you do? If a person's closest family member-their spouse-flat out told you to back off because an individual was very capable of taking your life (Imminent Threat/Danger) what would you do?
    This bitch is a typical MN Terrorist. The more she's been able to terrorize others into submission with *NO* repercussions, the bolder and more outrageous she's become. It seems DH feels there's no way out and that's *exactly* what your MIL wants him to believe right down to the end of his toes-and his life; "You can't escape me!" The stress from the Terrorist Attacks must have you both exhausted and in a chronic state of hyper-awareness. No one can think clearly under these circumstances.
    DH has tried LC/Placating the bitch which has availed him not one positive outcome. What more is there to loose by terminating the relationship? You've lost your peace of mind, your autonomy, your privacy, your dignity and (fill-in-the-rest-of-the-blanks.)
    Who wouldn't be scared of her? That's exactly what she's cultivated for 50+yrs. Men aren't "suppose to" be scared. Especially of their mothers. Treat her as if she's some stranger who's out to annihilate you because she is *both* of those. Fear is as strong a bond as love. MNs know this and use it with depressing frequency.
    No one ever died from embarrassment. But they've died from not paying attention to that fear they feel: It's meant to get your attention to keep you alive. Fear is a very powerful feeling for that reason.
    So contact Law Enforcement and give them a Heads Up. Have an attorney write a No Contact Letter. Change your contact info and tell your Boss at work a bit about what's up. When Mommy-Dearest is a Bunny-Boiler, she won't hesitate to boil him (DH) or you if possible.
    She's already got him in the pot and the water is starting to simmer.
    TW

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  24. It seems to me that he was programmed by the NM cult-mother to serve her needs and protect her from exposure from birth. He accepted as a child that his survival depended on that. She probably rewarded him well for total compliance. Probably in her sight you will always have a target on your forehead, unless you collude with both him and her. Basically you would have to deprogram him or wait for something to happen that is so awful, his whole inner structure of denial will shatter to the extent that the only way for him to heal is to reconcile himself with the truth. He did what he believed he had to, believes what he believes he has to, and unless you have grown up with it, it's probably impossible to fully comprehend how relentless and total the NMs manipulations to condition and reshape the victim into what she wants "it" to be in relation to her own sick twisted needs is. Given his denial of her toxicity, possibly a lot more may have gone on than you have heard from him, stuff so painful that it may be buried below his conscious awareness. The people I have met who have survived these monsters are women - like all of us here -(survival meaning the repossession of reality and our own relationship to it) -male survivors seem very rare? Sometimes the men seem to crack up and go completely mad or just go on managing denial and not rocking the boat. (Of course some women do this too). I wish I could offer you some comfort other than these frank thoughts about the difficulty of your situation. Your bottom line is "how to get my husband to take action". The other bottom line maybe is: can you spend your life living like this? Is it too destructive for you and your children? How destructive would it have to be for you to make the decision to leave? I know these are huge issues and that there is no easy answer, and you seem to be facing this without support (other than HOM). While sympathetic to the challenges you face, I am wary of offering you the temporary comfort of false hope. With maliganant narcissists and their sphere of power and influence, there isn't much hope for the adult victims they control to change until the pain gets so bad that the victims just can't go on as before and something happens, to their physical health or self or mind. Or some tragedy happens that acts as a catalyst for huge change. I didn't just wake up one day and say to myself "Oh my God she was a monster of narcissim", even though I never colluded with my NM. My journey to the truth only really began when the losses and emotional costs got too much for me and I was overwhelmed by them, and even then it was a very gradual process of stop and start and floundering in confusion and self-sabotage at times. It took me decades, to clarify and really name what my earlier experience had been, partly due to my ignorance of malignant narcissism and also the lack of verification from others on what had happened. If my husband had been as determined to support me as you are of your husband, I'm sure it would have been a much faster process.

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  27. Leah, I'm so sorry for what you are going through, and my heart breaks for your husband. I don't believe this monster - hiding behind the cloak of motherhood - deserves any of your "forgiveness" or anyone elses for that matter. She/it is a PREDATOR, in every sense of the word. My stomach turned when I read about what she has done, and continues to do to her son, to you, to your family. Whether or not "it" molested your husband, whether or not the showering scenarios turned into sexual acts will be discovered in time. The thing is, the showering is grossly inappropriate and disgusting and disturbing. And yes, it's all about SHAME. I see this monster using the showering as a vehicle to induce shame; looking over her son like the pervert she is, and making comments about his body parts, and generally torturing him and making him uncomfortable, embarrassed and filled with shame. There's a lot of incest in these sick N families. Lots of emotional incest, and often sexual incest as well. Yes, it's all about utter control and profound shame. Have you read "Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers"? It's on the links on the right side of the blog under "Sources of Kick Ass Information." These MN Monsters will stop at nothing to infiltrate every aspect of their child's being.I have more to say on this, but will sign off for now.

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  28. Yes, control, shame as Lisette said and using the child as an OBJECT for her own gratification. The objectification may be hard for you to understand Leah if you have never experienced it. Like me trying to imagine what it is like to be born blind - I simply can't, beyond vague guesses. You are (as you say) really struggling to understand all this, however can I suggest that you don't have to understand as much as you have to know and believe it. From your starting position of non-experience of this kind of pervert mother, it would take you decades to fully understand - wasted energy and time because understanding why she did it won't change anything for you. Just take it from us that the reason she did these things was because she was evil - as all malignant narcissists are evil - do ducks quack? do birds fly? Yes, because it's natural to them. And evil is natural to malignant narcissists. They seem limited in imagination because they all tend to abuse in the same ways. (That predictability is actually protective for us, because we now know what they are likely to do at any time and they can't use their ambush tactic). NMs are quite capable of sexually using both daughters and sons and sexual weirdness is one of their hallmark features IMO. So really the challenge for you as I see it at this stage is acceptance that what happened did happen.

    Years ago the first book that gave me a view of the truly evil nature of my NM was Scott Peck's The Road Less Travelled. He describes what he calls "people of the lie". NM's are the most malignant subgroup of them. Peck is not a commentator on NMs per se though he doesn't underestimate the true evil of truly evil people, nor deny that they exist. You are perhaps thinking "but how can I accept that?" though it seems to me that unless you do, you become absorbed into his denial to some extent; I'm sure some of us here could tell you far more shocking things that happened to us, and that most if not all of us here have no trouble believing what happened to him, because we know what NMs do and what they are. It's tattooed on our souls and we can't forget and we don't want to. (They wish). Hope you find your own best way through this Leah, best wishes for the journey ahead. Anna

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  29. Just an observation, but many men who are ACoNS appear to have been involved with minimally emotionally incestuous relationships with their Predator MNMs: They become the de facto "Husbands," "Man of the House" and are groomed into these roles from early childhood. When they reach adolescence, "Mom" is frankly overtly seductive in behavior/dress towards their buddies which is horribly embarrassing to them as well. Please check out "Transcending Indifference," a Blog by Lifesizevision. He's Jonsi's (another fine blogger-"Open Your Eyes and See") DH and start from the beginning. Q could fill you in on all kinds of these types of behavior at his Blog as well. There are *no* boundaries with these POS.
    I live in an area which has the unfortunate distinction of having the highest rates of incest in the state. Yes, there absolutely *are* mothers who engage in SA with their sons. IMO, any SA/Incest Survivor is horribly challenged to talk about what happened often because they are not believed by their own "Parent" and end up recanting their statements which leaves those who are trying to assist the victim without a case and without legal recourse. For men, it's seems to be a greater challenge yet to speak about SA/Incest which leaves them even more isolated when they do finally confide in the other "Parent" only to be met with disbelief-or worse. Look at how your FIL responded to his son-not exactly validation, compassion, an opportunity for your DH to speak honestly about his wife's highly inappropriate behavior towards his now adult son.
    You have *always* been a "Competitor" in your MNMIL's view. Yes, you feel like the "other woman" because in her mind, you are. I'm certain she has taken every opportunity since the first time you met her to ensure you know exactly where you stand (or kneel); that you would feel as if you were locked in some sort of bizarre death-struggle for your DH's very soul.
    You are.
    And "Every picture tells a story, don't it?"
    TW

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  30. Leah, the blogs TW mentioned are under my blog list on the right.
    Just wanted to mention that Anna nailed it with this: "NMs are quite capable of sexually using both daughters and sons and sexual weirdness is one of their hallmark features IMO." Sexual weirdness is exactly it. Although what your husband's MNM did to him is disgusting and evil, it is not unusual for these MNs to engage in this type of behavior. I grew-up in an environment with three Ns and although I was never seuxally molested, I found them all lecherous in their own way. I felt as if I had to cover-up around them. It's not just about cruelty, predation and viciousness with these MNs, it's also about their weirdness and perversions.They are social deviants. The book Anna recommended "People of The Lie" is a really interesting read and gives good examples of stomach turning subtleties of evil. The people described in the book are far from axe weilding maniacs.

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  31. Leah, I have a feeling that your comments on this post and the responses are going to help people. Nail on the head many times over during this discussion. Thank you for being so open with your story.

    Now it's time to percolate.

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    1. Hello Lisette,
      Thanks for providing the forum.

      I am going to delete some of the things I posted recently in case there is an easy way for MNILs to find where I post things. I am using a pseudonym, but still might need to be cautious. Really do not want a brand new wave of wrath from the NMILs.

      Thanks,
      -L

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    2. PS-
      Does anyone have an opinion about whether or not an MN will become violent if someone speaks the truth about their interactions with the MN?

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    3. MNs are entirely capable of violence, but there's many types of violence. I was at the receiving end of extreme psychological violence and a smear campaign when MN sister and MNM discovered me speaking the truth/commenting anonymously on blogs. The bitches underestimated me; instead of backing down I started my own damn blog.

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  32. So what do they do now? Threaten? Cajole? Send out flying monkeys to do their bidding?

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    1. I think it depends on the narc/socio you are dealing with. In my case, they are continuing the never ending smear campaign. But anything else is always possible with them.

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    2. I believe these MNs are so disconnected from reality that even if they were to read the truth about themselves they would disbelieve it. They certainly have no emotional connection to exposure. For example, feeling horrified at being called a MN, or feeling embrassment or shame - that doesn't happen. What does happen is rage and indignation; like how dare we challenge their way of being in the world. I believe their "violence" has more to do with a loss of control than exposure. I really don't think these MNs give a shit what other people think of them. What matters to them is being in total control and getting away with doing whatever the hell they like.

      I always go back to this: when MN sister discovered that I was writing about her anonymously on blogs her response was: "Why do you expect ME to act a certain way?! Why can't YOU just be complaisant?!"

      Long story short; exposure means that they are losing total control. When their compliant little targets are speaking out that means the MN has lost control of them. THAT'S what freaks them out.

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    3. Lisette, I believe what you say is true but on the other hand, NM does care about how outsiders see her. She couldn't stand it when she knew I was telling others about her and the foo.Matter of fact, she was angry about it. Some narcs/socios are big on appearances. NFather to some degree could careless about his "image". Other family narcs I know try to protect their "image" and others not so much.

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    4. I agree they're all different. MN sister never cared what people think, even as a kid. And she doesn't exactly have an "image" to protect. She's a weirdo, hermit. MNM on the hand, is crazy paranoid of what people think. She used to always spy on me when I had friends over to see what I might be saying about her. And the last time I saw her, 22 years ago, she blubbered, "I can only imagine what you tell your friends about me." I never even talked about her. And my friends were 1000s of miles away and they were people she had never met and would never meet. When MN sister and MNM discovered me exposing the truth online, I was mainly writing about MNM. That must of made her completely crazy and she ordered MN sister monkey to attack. I believe MN sister's attack and post abuse cover-up of the whole thing was to protect MNM. Maybe it's the "mother" label that makes these MNs so paranoid of exposure. "Mothers" aren't supposed to do awful things to their children, but it's acceptable for siblings to do awful things to each other. The bozos out there who don't get it, call it, "Sibling Rivalry." When you have a MN sibling, it's not about competing, it's about fighting for your life.

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    5. MNM and MN sister are completely fused, and I believe MN sister actually channels MNM; she is posessed by her. So if I cause MNM narc injury then I cause MN sister narc injury and visa versa. They are so creppy, it's like they are one person. I wonder what would happen if one of them died. I hope the remaining bitch would go completely mad.

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    6. "MNM and MN sister are completely fused, and I believe MN sister actually channels MNM;"

      "So if I cause MNM narc injury then I cause MN sister narc injury and visa versa"

      I concur. I've seen this with mil and sil. The channeling thing cracks me up.

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  33. Lisette,

    Am surprised that your sister didn't threaten you when she figured out her behavior was exposed for all the world to see. The reason I say this is because my own in-laws love to threaten and they use threats quite liberally and aggressively. My husband has told me that when he was growing up, if he ever said or did anything out in public that would even slightly hint that they were not perfect, they would threaten him with all kinds of things and then usually become violent by belting him when they got home. (Yes, even his mom would belt him). Oh, and then another time, my husband says his mom was undressing with the door halfway open. He walked past her room, saw her as he passed, and she flipped out. He said that she literally chased him around the house wielding a butcher knife and calling him a pervert and telling him she was going to kill him if she caught him. (He ran faster). So many things wrong with what his mom did on that one-- where to start? Would bet money that she intentionally set up the situation because she is the pervert. Then when he passed by, she took the opportunity to project her own anger about being a pervert onto her young son and acted out her projected rage by chasing him with a butcher knife.

    Frankly, the more I am blogging about this, the more iron-clad boundaries I am setting in terms of letting my husband know that his mom is never welcome in our house and that she will not be speaking with the kids, even on the phone. I no longer feel the pangs of guilt when my husband says, "But she is a GRANDMA and the happiest thing in her life is her grandchildren!!!" Yeah, that one used to get me but now it doesn't. Figure that if 'Grandma' were a rattlesnake, it wouldn't matter if she were a grandma or not. Rattlesnakes bite-- this is their nature and there is no reasoning with it and no negotiating with it. And if Grandma Rattlesnake wants to see her grandkids, it is because she needs a body onto which to release her venom. Took me many many years to come to this conclusion. But, time and experience is teaching me that this is the case and no contact must be maintained.

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  34. Leah, MN sister did one hell of a post abuse cover-up after she discovered I was talking. I mean, she was absolutely frantic and terrified what people might know about her and MNM; even complete strangers and friends of mine she had never met. So yes, they do care about people knowing the truth but I think what enrages them the most is not having control over their victim because that means they no longer have complete control over their "image." MN sister probably would have tried to kill me if she thought she could get away with it. The crazy bitch is a hermit so she never leaves the house. But without leaving the house, the psycho's efforts to "destroy" me for talking landed me in the hospital. I wrote about this on the post "Exposing The Malignant Narcissist." I always thought it was so weird when she said, "Why do you expect ME to act a certain way?" She didn't deny her bad behavior or defend herself. Her attitude was; why should I have to behave like everyone else?! YOU should just keep your mouth shut and obey me. I tell you, it was one hell of a creepy moment. She was reading blog comments about MNs!! That's when I knew she was insanely evil. She's very dangerous and it's amazing the havoc she wreaks from not even leaving the house.

    "But she is a GRANDMA and the happiest thing in her life is her grandchildren!!!" Yeah, that one used to get me but now it doesn't. Figure that if 'Grandma' were a rattlesnake, it wouldn't matter if she were a grandma or not. Rattlesnakes bite-- this is their nature and there is no reasoning with it and no negotiating with it."

    Good! I'm glad you're no longer being played by the GRANDMA label. That's the one NC road block most people get stuck on. But she's/he's my... fill in the blank. It doesn't matter what their "title" is in relation to us, they are DANGEROUS - THAT's what they really are in relation to us.

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    1. So where is your MN sister now? And why is she a hermit?

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    2. She's probably in her lair. Not too sure why she's a hermit. It could have something to do with MNM's influence.

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  35. IMO, the more Malignant they are, the more paranoid they are because don't cha know, it's *all* about them. Almost ALL the ACoNs I've come across have been Stalked in some form. C'mon, WTF? WHO does this shit? This isn't remotely *normal*, Folks.
    But most people aren't any where near as paranoid as they are or equally as importantly, have as much shit to try to cover: A life-time if, "If I'm breathing, I'm lying" leaves an incredible dung pile and the older they get, the higher the crap pile gets. Then, the more the paranoia increases exponentially to all the evil crap they've been involved in throughout their lives. Herein lies the lack of conscience: They DO know just exactly what they've done and they DO know it was at least morally repugnant: They CHOSE to actively predate on others. And from the pathetic to elaborate "cover-ups" which can be anything from them flat out denying what they just said/did 20 sec. ago to Hitchcockian mechanizations, who the hell would go to all this BS if they didn't KNOW exactly what they did? Damn, consciousness of guilt does NOT speak to actually HAVING a "guilty conscience." The stalking, the cover-ups are just epically revealing IMO to their crazy "reality:" They do NOT "feel guilty." They feel "Busted," "Caught" not to mention fuckin' furious.
    When I say, "Look, these MNs are truly living in a whole separate reality" I really can't explain it any more clearly than Lisette does. In all it's permutations, these MNs are just disgusting, "un-treatable" and unredeemable piss-poor excuses for a human being. But, hey, that's just my opinion.
    And we all know I'm NOT "PC."
    TW

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    1. TW,

      Have to say that I am not PC either. Whilst I always attempt to be diplomatic, courteous, and understanding, there are simply many occasions when I feel that being PC ranges from being mildly absurd and at its worst can lead to a type of thinking that can be dangerous. One of my personal pet-peeves in terms of PC is that I have observed many occasions where people use PC thinking to cover the truth. So keep on NOT being PC. Need some more non-PCers in this world!

      As far as MNs being in their own reality-- isn't that the truth. On the occasions when my mother-in-law has shared her unfiltered perceptions about life and/or people, any normal person within earshot would say, WTF?!!! The way NMIL interprets reality is not even skewed-- it is apparent she is living in an entirely separate reality from normal folks. Here are some of my 'faves' of crazy things MIL has said over the course of a decade:

      1) "I can understand why some women kill their children just like that woman in Texas who drown her four children. I think anyone who is a mom understands that there are times when this is possible. Don't you agree?" [Note: Sometime I should write that conversation out. I absolutely said NO to NMIL when she said that. I attempted to reason with her, but trying to reason with NMIL was pointless and bordered on the absurd.}

      2) "I will always be my son's mom. Because of that, I will always OWN him. I will always be the parent, I will always be right, and I expect him to always agree with me."

      3) "I think that parents have the right to end their child's life. After all, the parent brought the child into the world and so the parent owns him." {One of the variations on #2]

      4) Through false tears, "I will NEVER be nice to you because you do not deserve it. When you were a child, everyone waited on you and you had all the attention you needed. You have no idea what was like to be me as a child. I had to share attention with brother's and sisters." [Note: Not only is her reasoning absurd, she was also assuming that this was the case in my childhood. The reality of my childhood was that both of my parents were professionals and worked a lot. We also moved frequently and I started working odd jobs when I was about 10 years old for pocket money and other things. However, it is true my parents were kind, interested in my well-being, and continue to be nurturing. BUT, many things in my childhood taught me to self-reliant and that was strongly encouraged. I was never treated like a 'Princess', which is what my NMIL has always assumed.]

      5) With an angry voice, "If your children have problems, it is because of either your bad genetics or MY husband's bad genetics. Everyone in my family is perfect." [Anytime NMIL's sons or my own children do things that are less than perfect, NMIL blames either HER husband's bad genetics (FIL) or my bad genetics. Charming!!.]

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    2. Had to break up the post since it exceeded the character limit:

      6) In front of me and directly to MY older son, "I wish your dad would divorce your mom. He is such an idiot. I do not know why he divorced his first wife because she was PERFECT!" [Note: NMIL broke up her son's first marriage intentionally. And all the years prior to that statement, NMIL would always talk about how she HATED her ex-DIL.]

      7) When I caught NMIL in a lie and confronted her and then told her that her son (my husband) had even affirmed the thing she was trying to deny was true: "HE is CRAZY. I do not know what is wrong with him since he left my house. He was the perfect boy, always telling the truth before he left my house and went to college. Then he became CRAZY. I do not know what is wrong with him and why he tells such horrible lies. He is a terrible person! {Note: It didn't stop there. That time I nailed her foot to the floor and told her she was the CRAZY one and that her son's life actually got better when he left home. Incidentally, this was the last time I saw her and one of the conversations that prompted NC.]

      8) NMIL has said this many times to my face while looking me in the eyes: "I hate hazel eyes. Only witches and evil people have hazel eyes and they are so ugly too!" [Note: If you haven't guessed, I have hazel eyes. And I have never given the pleasure of providing a reaction to her comment. I have always ignored it.]

      9) "You need to wear those anti-cellulite shorts that they make. They will be good for you. And try those Spanx too. They will make you look better." {Note: When she was saying these things it was before I even had kids, worked out all of the time, and was rail thin. Also note I am about 5 inches taller than NMIL and about 30 pounds lighter. Ahhh... projection at its finest!!]

      10) About a year after my first child was born and literally out of the blue: "I am going to take your dog back to my house. You are too busy to take care of the dog and he needs to be disciplined better. I will call the airline and arrange for this ASAP." [Note: I had never asked for someone to take the dog-- never in a million years. That dog was part of our family. I remember fighting her hard on that one and she kept talking over me and telling me that I wanted to give her the dog. Well, she never did get the dog and he always lived with us. Unfortunately the poor fellow passed away on groundhog's day this year. That was a VERY sad time for us and especially since he was part of the family.]

      Well, folks, there are many more, but I will save those for another occasion!!

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    3. Yeah, the way they think is weird and twisted. It is just down right creepy...

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    4. The Accountant2 April 2013 at 10:18

      Sorry about the lateness of this comment, but I only read Leah's comments in the past few days and I wanted to say this: Leah, what you describe is horrible. Sounds like your MNMIL is one colossally evil shithead bitch. And I missed the now deleted comments, so I can only imagine what was in them. Disgusting! I am really sorry you and your family of choice had to put up with this. I am also glad you will not allow her any contact any more.

      By the way, I especially "like" the hazel-eyes thing: priceless.

      Hang in there. Hopefully, another one bites the (NC) dust.

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  36. TW, we all know you're not PC and that's why we love ya. Seriously, when it comes to these pieces of shit people who are PC are offensive.

    "Damn, consciousness of guilt does NOT speak to actually HAVING a "guilty conscience." The stalking, the cover-ups are just epically revealing IMO to their crazy "reality:" They do NOT "feel guilty." They feel "Busted," "Caught" not to mention fuckin' furious."

    That's it, in a nut shell. Thanks, TW.

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    1. Exactly... it is the fact that they got busted that makes them uncomfortable and hopping mad. Their discomfort certainly does not point toward having a conscience.

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  37. Any indication you're acting autonomously with OUT their "Consent" sends them over the edge just as Lisette said because it's a profound affront to their whole Power/Control BS. If you screwed over your kids, you don't get a "Do Over" with your grandkids, period the end. You predated on your own kids and you're not getting an opportunity to do the same to my kids, my family and I'm not presenting any MN "Parent" with second-generation Supply.
    My feeble attempts to differentiate, become a "groan-up" around my early 20's or so enraged Psychobitch, so she had to destroy my joy, my pride via the physical manifestation of my lil' "Declaration of Independence." I had my first real adult-type of living situation, an old cottage which was a "Fixer-Upper." I knew nothing about renovations, but I learned how to do everything from what was a load-bearing wall, which ones I could "remove," how to re-wire, hang wall board/mud, frame in and install new windows, paint, etc. I was so proud of that little cottage and decorated it with tons of houseplants, my tons of books/stereo components in built-ins I had constructed, re-finished/painted furniture, landscaped etc. I also learned to cook, discovered herbs/spices and loved to prepare food for friends who would gather at my place with their gee-tars and we'd have a grand old time. (Hey, this was the '60's/early '70's, OK?)
    Psychobitch decides to descend on my little nest. Nothing, I mean not *one* thing pleased her: The bed was uncomfortable, she was entirely pissed my friends enjoyed my company and my cooking as she sat silently glaring between gulping down my food and the polite overtures of inclusion in conversation etc. offered by me and all my friends. It was a jihad of disapproval/undermining courtesy of Psychob. At the crack of dawn a few mornings after she had arrived, she burst into my bedroom (mind you, closed doors mean nothing to these people), stood at the foot of my bed and announced loudly, triumphantly, "YOU have COCKROACHES!"
    O.M.G. I was beyond horrified!! Of course, she *knew* just how to address the "problem" and I was the dummy who still listened/believed "my mother" despite never having seen a single bug in my house. I followed her directions and immediately went to the store to get the boxes of white powdery stuff she said I *needed* and sprinkled it along all the baseboards (lovingly stripped of layers of old paint and re-finished) under her direct "Supervision." Unfortunately, this white powder was very, very obvious, and when my friends came over they inquired about it and with much shame, I told them what Psychob had told me. They were incredulous as they had never seen anything like bugs of any kind in my house. Psychob sat there with a smirk in between lecturing all about her superior knowledge re: Cockroaches and their entomology etc.
    Needless to say, there were *none.* Not ONE. That damn bitch wanted to destroy my joy in my little home, embarrass the hell out of me in front of my friends, literally "dirty me up." And I was still dumb enough to believe her. The reality was, she would out-right LIE, make something, anything up from thin air and a life-time of experience to that point taught me she absolutely would do exactly this. But ya know all that lacking in confidence in our perceptions etc.? I mean, your "mother" doesn't lie, right? She "wants what's best for you," right? HAHAHAAAAAA!
    If I ever wrote a book, I'd call it "The Cockroach Chronicles." By the time she left my little place, I felt like absolute shit. Even my friends who were saying, "Ah, TW, your mother is, ahh..nuts, yk? The woman is just-crazy!" couldn't mitigate the shame I felt.
    Just as she'd intended all along. I cleaned up all that white powder for the non-existant "cockroaches." Too bad I missed the REAL one-HER.
    TW

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    1. TW, that is the most brazen example of MN ENVY I have ever heard.

      "The Cockroach Chronicles." LMAO!

      "Too bad I missed the REAL one - HER." Please write a book, the most vivid imagination couldn't dream this stuff up.

      What a tormented evil bitch that Psychobitch. I'm just glad she got to see how happy you were.

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  38. "IMO, the more Malignant they are, the more paranoid they are because don't cha know, it's *all* about them. Almost ALL the ACoNs I've come across have been Stalked in some form. C'mon, WTF? WHO does this shit? This isn't remotely *normal*, Folks."

    Isn't this the truth????? Evilb has always been the most paranoid person I have ever known in my life! From the time I was a little kid, I remember her always thinking that someone was plotting and planning to "get her." As an adult, I could clearly say, "Bitch, you aren't important enough for anyone to waste their time", but as a child this made me protective of her in some weird kind of way.

    She tried to make me the same way, frequently telling me stories of how children were kidnapped and tortured, and how I couldn't trust a soul. At damn near 40 years old, I can honestly say that I have never been out trick-or-treating for Halloween. Why? Because people put poison in candy and razor blades in apples, so it was too dangerous for me to go. Strange that she was so concerned about my safety, as she is the same woman who would abuse me in every way possible.

    As an adult, I remember trying to be nice to her. I have a real passion for cooking, so times where she wasn't feeling well or I just had extra, I'd offer her a plate. The bitch initially refused because she was convinced that I put poison in the food. Now where did that come from? Perhaps HER history of drugging up or attempting to poison men was coming into play here? It certainly wasn't a rational thought because I would never tamper with anyone's food. Unlike these monsters, I do have a conscience.

    p.s. TW should write a book. Psychobitch has certainly provided her with a shit ton of material - perhaps enough for a trilogy? :)

    ANON

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  39. My malignant NM was president of a child and baby welfare charity, part of her double act as an upstanding paragon of virtue. She was utterly evil and a total hypocrite.

    Her own rottenness turned on her at the very end of her life: she died of gangrene. An outcome that I consider to be totally just for her. I am glad she is dead and can do no new harm to me nor any other human. Lisette, it's often almost spooky reading what you write, as if you grew up in the same hellhole zoo that I did, but then we all did.

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    1. Anna, death by gangrene is a fitting way for an evil MNM to go. Too bad her own rottenness turned on her at the very end of her life instead of all the way through it. I wish that's how it worked; that everytime these MNs dished-out their toxic waste, it came right back to them. Eventually they would all poison themselves to death. I guess some people call that karma. Unfortunately, seeing a MN suffer any consequences for their actions is the exception not the rule. It sounds like your malignant NM's death has brought you some relief. I hope that it so.

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  40. Gotta say, Anna I love the gangrene! I can not think of an odor that's more disgusting than rotting human tissue-it's indescribably horrible. Perfect physical and metaphorical ending for a perfectly rotten, stinking MNbitch.
    TW

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  41. this blog is brilliant, feeling abit down today but this has cheered me right up, thanks x

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  42. Karma does happen sometimes to mn's. My ignoring malignant narcissistic mother got a facelift and married her third
    husband,a man closer to my brother's age than hers. He was in his 20's, she was in her 40's. She "pressured" my brother
    to leave the province because she wanted to live in a fantasy world where she was her husband's age and having my brother
    around prevented her from living the lie. My brother is a narcissist and a momma's boy and always did what he was told and
    always resented me for not doing the same. She purposely ruined my family and reputation and tried to have me isolated
    to force me and my children to leave the province too, but when I refused...I was told in a seething voice that my
    children, her grandchildren were not allowed to call her grandma...she was to be called "aunt" My nm absolutely despised
    me for not disappearing and did all kinds of malicious things against me. I just didn't understand it then and I allowed
    her to hurt me terribly...while desperately needing her love and approval.

    Eighteen years later her husband ran off on her. Mother loosing control on her own life, started a campaign against my
    sister and her family. (My sister has been NC with my mother for almost 15 years now since then) It was during this time
    and being close to sixty she decided she needed another facelift. This time doctor
    botched the job. She was left with a scar more than an inch wide running the along the length of top of her hairline.
    She has to wear wigs the rest of her life to hide it. He cut a nerve above her left eye and now it droops and she looks
    like she has permanant "stink eye"... Another cut nerve around her mouth and now she has a permanant scowl.

    The botched job created psychological injury to my mother and she doesn't like what her bathroom mirror reflects back
    to her. It just seems so fitting to me, like justice.
    Karma decided it was time that the outside looked like and reflected how she really is on the inside.

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  43. "Paging Dr. Karma, Paging Dr. Karma, Dr. Karma please dial xxxx, Dr. Karma, extension xxxx..." ;)
    TW

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  44. Raging temper tantrums: throwing dishes at her child, then telling the child that this is all perfectly normal, and it's okay for parents to throw dishes at their children, as long as the dishes don't hit them.

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  45. Or, as my MN egg donor used to say to me, after having used me for dish-hurling target practice: "Look what you've made me do! Now clean up your mess!"

    One occasion, the bitch deliberately walked on the kitchen floor where I was still busy cleaning up all the broken crockery. So of course she stands on a shard of glass (she KNEW she would) and that became an excuse for a fresh tantrum because apparently I did not clear her Royal walkway fast enough.

    When I became sufficiently self aware to tell her "I didn't throw this stuff, you did", she stopped flinging the furniture. Didn't stop her flinging hurtful words though.


    NC-From-The-Lot-Of-Them

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  46. I was married to a man who is a Narcissist for 32 years. Only when I found FB messages from his latest little thing and getting in his face about it did he turn on me full rage. Even if they are only good friends, friends do not talk to each other that way. It's not my perception, etc. He kicked me out of the dream retirement home I had found and talked him in to. And he kept my dogs (I only get them when he is too busy to care for them). He ran straight to our adult kids (within two days of telling me he wanted a divorce) and when they called him on his shit, I was at fault (even though I hadn't even talked to them yet). The day of our divorce, he was confused as to why I wouldn't consider going on a date with him that night for dinner. He complained to my youngest daughter that I wouldn't even consider that we could get "remarried" in a year or so. I have no use for him, I do not talk to him anymore than I have to, I do him no favors (except picking up my grandkids when he "forgets"- which is more often than not- or taking my dogs). I met an absolutely wonderful loving man 6 months after my divorce was final and I am deliciously happy now. I bought my own home and am financially independent. No, I receive nothing from him and I'm proud of that fact.

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  47. I don't even know where to put my first comment because I'm simultaneously reeling and cheering at all of your posts. I wish I had the effort and the strength you have to rail against the narcs/perps. You are the anti-narc superhero! So thanks for the healing/reality talking because I considered breaking my 10 years NC the other day and was referred to this blog. What was I thinking? Now I know better, so thank you. So I figured I should share. This post in particular reminded me of an incident with my MNM. When I was a kid I had to make all of the meals at home and on summer holidays I used to make my mother's weight watcher's lunches. I had a little scale and weighed everything. I don't remember not doing it so I don't even know how old I was, seven, eight? Anyway, one day I tried to get on her good side so I boiled an egg, cut it up and added it to the salad. It was an extra thing for her to enjoy. I was very proud and set the table and set out her Women's Wear Daily to read. When she got home to eat it she raged at me so hard that she threw the salad at me, tupperware bowl and all. She said I was trying to sabotage her, make her fat. I was a selfish girl, on and on. I was so terrified of her that I made her another salad right away and cut myself while cutting up the onions because my hands were shaking so bad. I knew she would say I did it on purpose so I didn't tell her. The fucked up part is that she must have saw it because she watched me make the salad. She enjoyed watching me make the new salad. I remember eyes burning, trying not to cry until she left. Telling anyone this story could never add up our life together so it's nice to drop this one here and know it'll be understood. Thanks for the blog.

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    1. Hi Lily and welcome. Your mother is a vile, abusive bitch who lost the privilege to have you in her life. Congratulations to 10 years of no contact - keep going! She will NEVER change. She will always see you as nothing more than her punching bag. And yes, she totally got off on seeing you frightened, cut, bleeding and in pain. And I'm betting what she got off on the most is that you never mentioned you were hurt, you just continued to bow to her majesty. That's what these sadistic fucks like: that we never defend ourselves, we just take it without uttering a word of protest. That's the power high that all abusers live for. Your mother will always be chasing that high around you. Steer clear.

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  48. Thank you for your reply, Lisette. I really needed to hear that. After going so long without contact I had this idea I can tell her what's wrong with her and how she can get help but that's just not going to happen. It's just hard to stay "hard" all of the time. I had a baby this year so I think it's new hormones flooding through my body. Speaking of, I always vowed I'd never have a child as I had a secret fear of becoming her but I'm glad to say that couldn't be further from the truth. If anything I wonder how a mother can be so depraved when the one thing that makes a baby happy is just to simply hold your baby. What a revelation. So many people said to me that when you have a child of your own you gain sympathy for your parents but I'm still waiting for that to happen. If anything, I have more anger now seeing myself as an unprotected child. I am not looking forward to having to explain to my son why he hasn't met his grandparents.
    Anyway, I appreciate the welcome. I may pop up here again as I see it's good to hear about other people's experiences. It's easier to see how clear it is to steer clear when it's not your life. And maybe it's good to share. I was eating dinner with friends pre-baby and we got on the topic of mothers. I told a story about mine and silenced the table. I realize my stories are true bummers and they are not fun dinner party conversation. Even if I start out trying to tell it funny it always goes dark. And I'd hate to have anyone think I'm trying to make them feel bad by telling a worse story.
    Even thinking about contacting my MNM has made a rash break out on my face. Isn't that nuts??
    Take care.

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    1. I don't believe protecting yourself is being "hard." Maybe realistic? I think that a lot of ACoNs feel more anger toward their N parents as they get older, have children and realize how the Ns "chose" to fail us in order to meet their own selfish needs. Yup, talking about an MNM at a party will clear a room. The only people who seem to get the dark humour are other ACoNs, normal people just end up feeling real bad for us. The rash isn't nuts at all. Sometimes I get hives when I think about calling my N dad. My mind doesn't even go there with MNM.

      It IS good to share. Y'all come back now.

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    2. Maybe "hard" is a poor word choice but I've been using it for years in reference to leaving my past behind. That I had to "harden up" in general to move forward. Like wearing armor. As for the dark humour, it's blowing my mind in the best way.

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  49. OH, the MNs love to call their daughters "selfish." It's their fucking favorite. Having a baby gave me sympathy for my MN and grandmother (also MN) for a while but then I realized that my whole life was orchestrated to carry around their pain--all their painful stories of their shitty lives. The sympathy is gone. I have to protect myself and my daughter. I can't believe that for my whole life I was gaslighted and called selfish and broken and was sadistically teased and manipulated AND I was made to carry around MN's sad childhood and feel sorry for her.

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  50. sigh. If "selfish" is the label you're aware of, don't even try to envision the Slime and Malign Campaign that goes on when you're *not* in "hearing range." These MN "Parents" revel in throwing their own Projections all over their kids whom they've thrown under the bus through out the AC's life. And while they're reviling the AC, they're simultaneously inviting all the bystanders/minions to fete them at their "Pity Party:" After all, they must suck up all the available Attention, poor bay-bees, whether they're 7 or 70. A 7 yr. old seeking attention is a typical 7 yr. old. A 70 yr. old MN is engaging in this behavior with entirely different motivations and entirely without hope of ever out-growing this Stage of Development.
    MNPerpetrators are pros at presenting themselves as "Victims" while the REAL victims are the kids they brought into this world for a bunch of (nefarious) reasons, none of which have anything remotely to do with truly wanting or loving this unique human being, their child. Once that child can't be played with like a doll, they'll spend the rest of their lives ripping that doll/child's head off, sticking it on a shelf or discarding it once it no longer "works" or they procured a "newer, shinier" more malleable toy.
    But Woe to the AC who has the absolute gall, the incredible (insight) audacity to WALK AWAY-FOREVER! The MNPerp demands the AC's head on a platter! "NOW!" she commands her minions who willfully collude in the on-going War of Domestic Terrorism against that "selfish, ungrateful, willful, overly-sensitive, brat" etc. AC who simply choses to live their life in peace.
    But in all fairness, I guess I'd get pretty upset too if my arm or leg or some other appendage just upped and left. By the same token I wouldn't be too surprised-or any less culpable or accountable-at the outcome if I abused the shit out of it either. ;)
    TW

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  51. Tundra Woman, very true. My mother has been waging a smear campaign on me for most of my life. Even when I was totally subservient to her. She became ill around the time I turned 12 and I had to bath her, wipe her ass and tie her shoes. She never thanked me or acknowledged any of this. She just kept telling everyone how ungrateful I was and how she had to do everything herself. She took it to new levels after I went no contact and I still occasionally get upsetting phone messages from people I used to know demanding to know what kind of spoiled brat I am to throw my mother under the bus, to make her hit rock bottom. How I can be happy now because I've apparently "won". The irony is that she used to go on about how pathetic she found these people. She had such contempt for them. When she found out I was pregnant she never contacted me directly but got someone else to saying that my mother could die knowing this. (I waited until I was 7 months along until I told a distant family member I still talk to who also doesn't talk to her -but I knew it might find it's way to her. I waited because I wanted to make sure the baby could be born if my mother stressed me out so much, which she did. I ended up getting TMJ!) She figured out the best way to hurt me and she did but I didn't give her the satisfaction of a response. I never reply but am affected by it because my mother targets people I cared about growing up to turn on me. So anyone who gave me love growing up (thereby rendering me not a sociopath) now thinks I am the scum of the earth for refusing my mother. I had to let go of all of those people because I realize that anyone that doesn't question how a mother can never say anything good about their child aren't the kind of people I need in my life. This woman I cared about was our neighbour growing up and she was by all means a lovely person. Very caring and welcome to me. I feel like if she was willing to look the other way than what's the point of me ever making a case for myself. It's impossible with the cover up kind of abuse. But looking back, I am culpable myself- I used to cover it up as I was afraid they would put me in a foster home. The devil you know, I thought.
    Writing these out makes me feel mildly narcissistic for even telling my story so thanks for reading and responding.

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  52. lily: you are not culpable in any way. You were trying to navigate the world. You were confused. And you're not narcissistic for allowing yourself to talk on this site. It's like Lisette said in another post: it would be nice if the childhood with MN were in the past but it isn't. The loss of other people is the continuation of the abuse and sadness. You can put that sadness here and be understood. I used to feel so alone, like "does anybody else in the world have a mother like this? is it me?" The story of your MN throwing the salad makes me want to weep. My own MN would never have even done that. The projection is hideous: basically she knows what sabotage is and figured that fucking with someone is what she'd do. She couldn't even imagine that you were trying to do something kind. You never looked at as you.

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  53. Lisette – I just read your blog, and it was so helpful to me. I worked for an extremely angry narcissistic man for many years, with all the ups and downs that go with this role. I was able to do well and was promoted several times until I was essentially his partner (at least that is what he called me, though he kept complete control over the business). Recently, he learned that I am in recovery from alcoholism, and his attitude toward me completely changed. He decided that he was going to make me so miserable that I would quit. After he disposed of me, he thought he was rid of me forever. But just this week, he was served with a lawsuit for workplace discrimination and harassment. This lawyer took my case for free, because he believed I would win, and then he will get 1/3 of the settlement. I wish I could be a fly on the wall right now. I am certain that this N is completely enraged and unraveling. He HATES it when anyone has the upper hand. And what he hates even more is when he is helpless to do anything about it. The case will likely drag on for a few years, and that “suits” me just fine, because he will not be able to push this to closure. I loved the last part of your blog where you talk about how to cause a narcissist “lifelong injury and all-consuming rage and maybe a little fear …” I hope this is what I have done, after the way he treated me. Now I know I need to let go and move on. Otherwise, he will still have a hold on me (even though I have no contact with him). But just for a little while, I am going to enjoy this. Whether or not I win the case, I feel I have won. I am sorry that your family treated you so badly, but I admire your ability to pull yourself out of the situation and understand it for what it was. I hope you are doing really well now.

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  54. Oh, and as a follow-up to my previous blog, I, too, am an ACON. Both parents were narcissists. It is not an accident that I stayed with this boss for as long as I did. I believe that many of us will repeat the trauma of the past in relationships of the present (aka, repetition compulsion).

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    1. Sara, good for you for going after your nasty ass boss/partner. You're right, all narcs must always have the upper hand, and they HATE it when they lose an ounce of control. The narc believes they have the right to control the entire world, and everyone and everything in it, So when they lose power - they freak out!! Power and control is the name of the game with the narc and there's nothing he can do about the lawsuit, except watch the case make its way through the system like everyone else. These narcs think they are invincible and the rules don't apply to them. I love it when they cross the wrong person who has the stamina to go after them... because it does take stamina. I sued an ex-employer and the case dragged on for three years. It was settled out of court, and I can tell you I rarely, if ever, think about that narc or the situation because I defended myself. It's the situations where I took it without fighting back that still haunt me.

      I agree that it's not an accident that as an ACON you stayed with this boss for as long as you did it. It's probably no accident that you worked for him in the first place. I don't believe in psychological theories like trauma bonding, or trauma repetition compulsion. They are victim blaming theories that pathologize the victims. So we have some uncontrollable compulsion (conscious or unconscious) to experience trauma?! Don't think so. All i know is that I was brainwashed and trained to accept bad behavior as normal, and to tolerate bad behavior a hell of a lot longer than the average person. I was also brainwashed and trained to doubt myself, my perceptions and intuition. I was raised in a N cult that primed me for abuse, and made me a tasty target for predators. There's no way I repeated the trauma because of some compulsion. Hogwash! There's a lot of PDs out there, and for the most part it's just bad luck when we once again are forced to deal with one of these creatures. Now I know how to spot them, and respond accordingly. Now I'm deprogrammed and trust my intuition. It had nothing to do with a "compulsion." These "theorists" like to assign a disorder to the victims of the disordered because it pads their book of lies (the DSMV) and gives them a new batch of patients - victims of the system.

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  55. Oh yes, I was 'the moody child'. I suspected this frame-up for a long time. Now I really see it was the garbage I thought it was. And I learned early that they expected me to be happy and accepting of anything they said or did because they had a right to do it ... or so they think. I am educating them now that they do not have those rights. Thank You.

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  56. I currently am living with a narcissistic grandmother and a narcissistic uncle who is her muppet calls our house every so often to glean information about us, my father, calls my mother names in ways as if she is his wife and abuses our phoneline. My grandmother and grandfather have both been abusive ever since I was little. Since my father go out early and got himself a great education with his own money, they have forever scapegoated my father, spoke lies about him to everyone they know and have literally killed all the relationships he has with any of his distant or close family members by doing so. On top of all of this, when my uncle used to visit our family when they were younger, or even when my grandfather used to visit my family when we were younger (but lived away); they used to go through my parents' drawers, read their private letters from my moms side of the family and create huge fights; which would continue to flame up when we visit them at their place years later. Such vile creatures these people are. Now my father had been no contact for about 17 years and recently when we went to visit our homeland to complete a festivity for my brother, we had to stay at our uncle's place (it is customary to do so and not stay in a hotel)

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  57. we had to stay at his place for a month and it was hell on Earth for those 30 days....he is also NPD and domestically abuses his wife and children and his youngest child who is 6 now I believe is a growing narcissist with no empathy whatsoever! On the scorching, hottest days of summer, she refused to give anyone even a drop of water from the common water bottle for 7 straight hours and is a little girl who does all the mischeif in the house and then blames her sister for commiting them, sees her being hit and laughs her heart out at her misery. Her older sister is so tormented in their house, that she has come complaining to me (someone she hasn't seen in about 8 years) to rescue her!....Anyway, living with him was hell on earth, everyday would be like walking on eggshells and gossip would be abound in the family as all my dad's other sisters were there as well. Whats interesting now, is that during that event, my Ngrandmother convinced me that she was being tortured in his house (grandfather has passed away and she forcibly lives in his house as a dependant with lots of expenditures) and convinced me to ask my dad (who had been no contact till then) to have her brought over here to a foreign country. Lo and behold 7 months ago, we did and she is the most vile creature you shall ever see. She is here to reap the benefits of raising my dad when he was younger,talks about grateful he should be, only focuses on eating in the house, demanding 3 course fresh meals on the dot around the clock 3 to 4 times a day and acts like a child literally, playing dumb, elderly, claiming all my parents' attention and acting like the martyr. Her pathological lying knows no bounds as you can see her do something, and she will lie straight out that she didn't. She is obsessed with her possessions and keeps wagging it in my parents' face while here and she also believes that my mom is her servant and should cater to her needs as thats what good daughter in laws do, and also because she has written some of her property to our name and so she deserves this repayment. On top of all of this, she bludgeons my uncle's family name, has told us that she has slept in THEIR BEDROOM for 3 years WITH THEM (talks about their sex lives to us; as she has seen them do it once) and calls my aunt (who is no better than my uncle but is actually a poor woman stuck in all of this mess) an eununch, and a lazy, fat bitch who deserves to die (when my aunt has been the one to take care of this piece of shit for 3 years now. Totally atrocious....and looking at all the pain this bitch ha caused my dad and his family, I just wish for her to die, but every day she diligently takes all her vitamins (is in her 70's already) and asks for more when she is done every time from my dad! Oh forgot to mention, she also pits siblings against one another, plays selfish all the time, and plays like a martyr who is also a child, but wants adult respect and authority. Utterly bile and useless being to have walked this earth!

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